Where do I start?

farmergiles said:

Lol now I can't decide on decks! People comment that the crappy looking ones (original R-W, etc) have more meaning to them and that the eye-candy gorgeous ones (Druidcraft or Gilded) are bland and empty! Perhaps I need that shop visit first!

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Everyone has taste in something different. Personally, I did most of my learning on a RWS, and still use a Radiant Waite nearly daily, because I like the coloring and lines on that version the best out of what is available for RWS, but any deck you find that appeals to you will work. The suggestions for the "crappy" looking ones were because most books are based on one of those three systems, and spending time learning them now will serve you through the rest of your tarot journey. There are certainly decks I find more visually appealing, and now I use them, but my experience was that having a really solid foundation in RWS allowed me to translate that knowledge to an entire world of decks, and as I started to explore TdM and Thoth, I realized that all knowledge is worth having. You do not have to do it that way, though, not by any stretch of the imagination!

Any deck that speaks to you is the right one, though. Some people like illustrated pip cards, and some don't. You asked where to start, so everyone threw out some suggestions. For what it's worth, in my opinion, the Gilded and the Druidcraft are both very solid decks, and if you get the Gilded in the black box, both come with extensive books (the orange box labled 'Easy Tarot' has a book as well, but it is not as good, in my opinion). I could see learning on either of those decks, because after all, tarot should be about joy, and creativity is rooted in pleasure, so it's important to love your deck!

I've been thinking about your thread, Giles...

Originally I was going to recommend a couple of fantasy/SciFi focused decks, but I just went back and reread your beginning post. And I think that was a bad impulse. You've said you wanted to start on the right foot this time. A clean start with an eye to actually making progress... So I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

If you comb through the beginner threads here on AT, you'll see a repeated theme: I should have started with one of the classic decks: TdM, Thoth, RWS... Repeatedly, people lament the ground they lost and time they wasted struggling with thin, themed decks to fumble at the edges of the system they were trying to grok.

If you don't believe me, go and look at the threads. Over and over, experienced readers will advise beginners to pick a deck that has real legs. Over and over, people stall a few weeks into "studying" a must-have, super-sparkly, scratch-n-sniff Tarot of the Crystal-Robot-Celto-Succubi and then flagellate themselves for being unable to develop skills while swimming laps in a pool that's an inch deep. Over and over, intermediate readers lament the decision to go with the flavor of the month rather than a solid workhorse deck that will stand up to not just hours but YEARS of scrutiny. Not the prettiest, not the fanciest, not the most glossy and seductive... the deck that has traction as an object of study and reflection. The class I taught last year started everyone on the TdM and my students never stopped coming back to those images, even when they'd worked with the WS and Thoth and any number of other decks that they came to after some foundations had been laid. The TdM is the root of all occult Tarots; and the Thoth and WS are the direct parents of the vast majority on offer today.

As for books, I love reading; I study everything obsessively. If you've selected a classic as your startup deck, the advantage is that there are literally hundreds of texts and articles that will support your investigation of the deck should you be inclined that way. It stands to reason: they aren't classics by accident. And they didn't reach that status by conning point-of-purchase buyers with a kitschy theme or slick packaging. Now, reading and book study is a huge part of my learning process because it doesn't bog me down, it's a log on the fire. Your mileage may vary. But the best part of a classic is that even without a book, just by looking at the images you ARE studying a coherent system that has been working for readers for a long, long while.

By saying this, I don't mean in any way to diminish anyone's meteoric progress with the Tarot of the Mermaids or whatever, but rather to make sure that meteoric progress is even possible with a deck distinguished primarily by the appeal of its illustrations. IMO, you don't read prettiness, you read connections between symbols. That's true with books and triply true of cards.

Here's the trouble with many (not all, but many) pretty decks: the creators knew f%&k-all about Tarot or Liber T or the Golden Dawn before they got cracking; they just regurgitated what they had gleaned from Pamela Colman Smith's images, interpreting her interpretations in a game of cartomantic chinese whispers. They convey the gist without the grist. They can't tell you WHY the woman's 2 Swords are crossed or WHY the dude with 10 Wands is trudging along or WHY Strength had to become Trump 8; they just puke it back out, undigested... or worse, they botch things because they don't know any better. A fax of a xerox of a mimeograph of the shorthand of someone else's Cliffnotes. Any change they've made is superficial at best and misguided at worst. That's not to say that the GD (or the TdM or Levi) is gospel, but rather that if you want to learn a system, then learn it... whether it's from the books or from the cards directly. Otherwise it's a bit like trying to learn a language by eavesdropping on half a telephone argument through a brick wall. Why throw hurdles in your own path?

As for the siren call of snazzy, sleek illustrations, the thing to remember is that you aren't decorating your walls with them, you are filling your mind with them. They aren't scenery, they are windows. Moreover, every single one of the pretty decks that might tempt you is based on these classics. Every single one. Frankly, 95% of the decks on sale in North America are Waite-Smith based, so if that's the direction you're leaning, I'd suggest biting the bullet annd getting the WS or one of its respectful recolorings and getting down to business. Nothing will replace time spent focused on images that aren't 8 degrees separated from the source. The Waite-Smith images, and the system underlying them, did not fall from the sky. The thing is, whatever the pretty decks get right, they get right because of what they've absorbed of the Golden Dawn structure, whatever they get wrong arises from their ignorance of that same structure. The one constant is that the actual source of their knowledge is the Waite-Smith they've aped.

Now the two decks you're mentioning are very high-end clones. But I'll add that Ciro has lamented the many mistakes and oversights in the Gilded... some of them are simple errors in research or use of symbols. That's the deck's creator! Nothing dire, but why learn this stuff incorrectly? Still, he's dissatisfied enough to go on and produce not one but TWO additional decks to "get it right" and "Gild" the Gilded, so to speak. The Druidcraft is a truly marvelous clone, but in order to wedge the GD structure into a pagan context it makes some radical changes to the Trumps... and again, why wouldn't you want to get the material straight rather than mutated? Not because the GD is inviolable, but because there is no point in studying a fax of a xerox of a mimeograph of something that may have been wrong to start with. Tradition counts here: choose something with traction or your start won't get you very far.

For what it's worth, I imagine you'll just find a deck and buy whatever floats your divinatory boat. Most people do. Many people in this thread have recommended decks that work for them. Whether those decks would have worked for them as beginners and whether those decks have helped them develop as readers, who can say? That would be tealeaves. But any of the decks mentioned that are based on an original classic deck are, at best, a reiteration of something expressed BY that classic. If you think the RWS is "crappy looking" than maybe that isn't the deck for you... but then again: you aren't going to wear it, you're going to read it. Do you buy books solely based on their cover art? The Marseille may seem less immediately sexy, but the power and crudity of the images can work wonders with a beginning reader and are INFINITELY less restrictive than the Waite-Smith scenes. Maybe the Thoth's sleek Deco modernism is more your bag. That's a phenomenal deck to start with, a big leap but a BIG payoff if you stick with it. I guess what I'm saying is, we digest the nutrition not the packaging.

If all this sounds a little autocratic or scoldy, I apologize. Namaste. It's just that there is a difference between going with your gut and doing whatever's comfortable. And to my ears, "whatever feels best" always sounds like incitement to napping and masturbation. On AT there's a time honored tradition of folks starting out with a sparkly shallow deck, thrashing around for a few months, and then either giving up entirely or going back to square one with one of the Big 3... so I'm speaking from a desire to help, not coerce. I started out when I was very young with a Waite Smith, followed almost immediately by a Thoth because the Christian elements in Waite's designs gave me the heebs. It didn't matter, they were both decks to grow on. Nowadays, the embarassment of decks (and of embarassing decks) can be overwhelming... so I just want to encourage you to look not with your outer eyes but your inner ones, so that you pick a deck that changes how you see, and not the other way 'round.

Scion

I need Scion to come deal with my kids after I am wishy washy with them, haha. Although I will say this - my 13 year old boy wanted to learn tarot, on the Necronomicon. I put my foot down on that one and gave him a Radiant Rider Waite and Absolute Beginner's Guide to Tarot by Mark McElroy. He now reads like a little adult, and uses a Bohemian Gothic as his regular reading deck, and he has told me he was glad he learned the RWS first, or it would seem TOO dark and he wouldn't know how to make the "right" meanings (I assume he is referring to range here).

Honestly, I have been reading for years and years, and I still learn every single day. Equally honestly, my collection grows, but the decks I actually read with are limited. A lot of them are just petty pieces of paper I like to play with.

When my kids wanted to learn to snowboard, every single one of them wanted to do the half pipe and the jumps the very first day, but, um, no, it doesn't work that way. They needed lessons, and from those lessons they have built up, and now they can take full runs in less than an hour with me (I don't want to know what the boys do when I am not with them; ignorance IS bliss with boys, I have found). This has not been a quick or easy process (although I had the foresight to send them to an instructor for lessons while I careened down the hill solo) but the results will be a lifetime of skill for them to enjoy.

There is a correlation in there somewhere.

I still say just love the journey, and whatever deck you do pick learn it inside and out. I still believe the time investment will go further with a start in one of the big three, but it's your journey. Enjoy!

Blimey Scion, I aged 3 years reading that whole post! Haha, nah I didn't take it as scoldy, it was quite an informative post and did provide a good discussion on what constitutes a quality deck as opposed to eye candy. (granted perhaps "crappy looking" was a bad phrase to use for RW, it has it's retro style look! ) Like I say I'm new, so feel free to steer me away from paths which might cloud my better judgement on choosing a deck/book.

I have to admit you have a point on starting with the standard. I keep thinking I'm going to have one deck and thats it, but all of you comment that you have a million decks so I know thats not likely to be the case (though how you manage to use them all I don't quite get! ). I haven't looked into TdM as much as RW so I'll do some more research into that.

I never knew that courses existed for Tarot readers!! That explains your lengthy post, that was a lot of detailed information! Never heard of them here (UK) so perhaps it's more popular in the US?

I noticed you mentioned the book I was interested in Manda. Glad to hear it did your son well (impressed more that you manage to get him interested in Tarot at a young age!) so I feel more secure on making that my first book to go from. After I've digested that one with a standard deck, perhaps I'll advance up to a more glossy deck and get hold of Mary's 21 Ways to Read Tarot book as that is talked of very highly on this forum.

I'll look into some TdM (was that Marsellies btw?) decks to see what they are like. Failing that I'll get the original RW deck from Amazon with the book. It may not be as glossy, but that Starter Tarot Deck I have from years ago does benefit from clearer symbolisms using the traditional pictures as opposed to new fancy ones. My only worry is that because I don't come from a religious background, I'll struggle to relate to the Christian motive of the Original RWT. Then again I don't come from a Pagan background either, but the Druidcraft does look nice whilst been visually symbolic.

Another deck that I will admit looks great though is the Dark Grimoire one. Obviously not a beginner deck but that is some quality artwork!

Since the Tarot originated as a card game, and its imagery is derived from Christian neo-platonic themes and European religious pageants, it's kind of difficult to escape the "Christian" aspect of the cards. May as well just accept it and move on.

I totally respect Scion's recommendation, and in your thread in the tarot deck section I did note that if you want to get strong esoteric background then go to the big 3.

I have to be honest, I really did try to start with the RWS. I read books, played with my deck, and honestly the imagery of that deck just simply did nothing for me. So I tried with a Universal Waite, it was a little better but still just did not connect at all to the art. I kept reading about it all the while. Finally I got a Robin Wood, and that was the first deck I was able to read with, about 9 months into the process and who knows how many cruddy books. I resepect the RWS, and use it as a study deck (still) to continue to build on my foundation (15+ years later), but I still cannot read with that deck. It is probably a mental block now *LOL*.

But if you can get into any of the big 3, that would be the most excellent place to start. If you start with the RWS consider getting the book 78 Degrees of Wisdom. That book is one of my most prized texts - I consider it a text book.

Cool, got the Gilded Tarot with Bag + the Absolute Beginners book in the end. They work together, I get a storage for the cards, I get a deck that IMO looks amazing which will make me enjoy reading more (I found with the 5 year old pastel drawings on my Starter Tarot Set ages ago I lost interest in the pictures as they didn't make me want to delve in deeper).

Many happy hours to you with your deck!

After reading Scion's post, I was going to jump in and recommend the Lo Scarabeo. It has attractive artwork, and uses elements of all three traditions that Scion mentions (TdM, Thoth and RWS). It's also scripted by the author of your chosen book, so they pair together well. I think there is plenty there to study, myself. But I see I'm too late!

Glad to hear you picked a deck that you like.

Perhaps a moderator could link Scion's well-written post somewhere in one of the appropriate forum faqs or indices? I think that was well-written and mayhaps have wider appeal to future newcomers.

Been looking over the deck, laying each card out in order to fan out, etc and heres some observations.

(1) My god the pictures are gorgeous! I will not tire of learning with this deck with regards to the artwork.

(2) Very thin cardstock. That worries me in terms of long term wear (signs of minor wear just from transit) but then I got a clean table and a nice bag so I'll be sure to take extra care with them!

(3) The companion book is quite good. It describes each card relating to the specific images on it so you can understand where the writer is getting the observations from. I won't use it as the main learning tool, but its an excellent supplement to my other book.

As for the Mark Elroy book, I've read the first 6 chapters already within a couple hours. That's the first time I've actually sat down and read a book in a good long time. But thats the easy background stuff done, now I have to look at each card in detail.

Theres a lot of emphasis on writing down spreads, stories etc, so I guess I'll have to suck it up and keep a journal even though creative writing is not my forte! If I had a proper looking journal I'd like it more though, is there an official retail Tarot journal book? Saying that I suppose I could just simply design an Excel spreadsheet with the various spreads on each page, then put some lines in for writing and just print out lots of pages!

When I get time to do my first 3 or 5 card spread, I'll think I'll ask it the question "Why Have I Decided To Learn Tarot"? That should give an interesting answer!