The Thoth tarot and Astrology

You might find Jim Eshelman's, Liber Theta, useful. It breaks down each of the Minor cards into it's component parts. (Minor card summaries start on p.35 onwards.)

http://thelema.org/publications/books/LiberT.pdf

For example, here's the 3 of Wands.

Liber Theta said:

Three of Wands
VIRTUE
(Previously called, “Established Strength.”)

Meditation Pattern: Place Atu XIX, The Sun, and Atu IV, The Emperor, side-by-side, with the 3 of Wands above them.

Traditional Description: Three wands in the center: two crossed, and the third upright between them. Flames issue from the point of junction. Above and below are the symbols Sun and Aries.

Binah of Fire: The establishment of primeval energy. Self-respect, integrity, arrogance, selfassertion; that is, the ideas of Will and Dominion (the two previous cards) now have become interpreted in terms of character.

Sun/Aries: Established force or strength. Realization of hope. Leadership, enthusiasm, courage. Formulation, birthing. Pride, nobility, wealth, generosity, power, obstinacy, conceit. Rude self-assumption, insolence, conceit.

Saturn + Sol: Firm, decisive, determined, persevering; completion of labor; attaining to a certain status; yet withdrawn, private, secluded.

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As you can see Sun in Aries is just one part of the card. There's Binah of Fire to consider because this card is a 3 and in the suit of Wands. (Binah is the 3rd sephira, so all the 3's correspond.)
Being unfamiliar with Qabalah you might also wonder where Saturn came from?! Saturn corresponds with Binah and hence to the number 3.

Thank you Aeon, I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.

closrapexa said:

I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.

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I didn't see anything misleading. Using major cards to 'tune in' to the minors is a perfectly valid technique. Eshelman uses it for the meditation patterns in Liber Theta.

The same system is woven into the RWS images in one way or another.

Aeon418 said:

You might find Jim Eshelman's, Liber Theta, useful. http://thelema.org/publications/books/LiberT.pdf

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Excellent. Thank you.

And thanks to Rodney for the Cube, a really clean image.

Aeon418 said:

Originally Posted by Liber Theta ...
Sun/Aries: Established force or strength. Realization of hope. Leadership, enthusiasm, courage. Formulation, birthing. Pride, nobility, wealth, generosity, power, obstinacy, conceit. Rude self-assumption, insolence, conceit.

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Sorry ... I mention it every so often ... I am off topic ... its all been explained before (has it ?) ... BUT its still bugging me! This interpretation of the astro symbols on the cards.

Where does this come from? How did it start ... is it just me? Has everyone (including Jim and Crowley) just made the basic assumption.

I know, I know ... most of the time I just put up with it go along with it ... but today ... I am bugged by it.

ravenest said:

I know, I know ... most of the time I just put up with it go along with it ... but today ... I am bugged by it.

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It probably wouldn't bug you so much if you could disassociate the actual practice of astrology from the way that Tarot, Qabalah, Alchemy, etc., use the 'symbolic language' of astrology for their own ends. It's not astrology. It's merely an appropriation of little bits and pieces of astrology to serve as a kind of mnemonic shorthand for ideas and concepts within the context of non-astrological systems.

Aeon418 said:

It probably wouldn't bug you so much if you could disassociate the actual practice of astrology from the way that Tarot, Qabalah, Alchemy, etc., use the 'symbolic language' of astrology for their own ends. It's not astrology. It's merely an appropriation of little bits and pieces of astrology to serve as a kind of mnemonic shorthand for ideas and concepts within the context of non-astrological systems.

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HUH!? That's what I thought the notification on the cards was ... exactly that! ; " an appropriation of little bits and pieces of astrology to serve as a kind of mnemonic shorthand for ideas and concepts within the context of non-astrological systems." As the planet symbols on the cards represent a decan of a sign and not a planet in a sign but every one interprets them AS a planet in a sign ... which to me seems " the actual practice of astrology" invading " Tarot, Qabalah, Alchemy, etc" (and its use of) " the 'symbolic language' of astrology for their own ends."

To be clear; I am asking why this common usage of astrology has invaded the tarot ... yet you seem to be suggesting that is what I am doing ... More

Or are you saying that a planet used to denote a decan is the same as a planet in a sign.

Actually .... it doesn't matter ... all carry on, ignore me ... no matter how often I try to explain it ....

A decan is not the same as a planet in a sign. No one thinks that, I hope. It just has certain characteristics of a planet in a sign. Sometimes I wish that the GD had not used that terminology, but it is useful for card interpretation.

ETA. I don't see the need for the allusions to astrological configurations to be taken literally. Decans are a convenient way to group the pips 2 through 10 since there are 36 such cards and also 36 decans. The assignment of planets to the decans is slightly awkward, since there are 7 classical planets, and therefore they cannot be distributed evenly among the 36 decans. When 36 is divided by 7, the quotient is 5 with 1 left over. Therefore when each planet is assigned to 5 different decans there would be a decan left without a planet, a situation which is remedied by assigning Mars to 6 decans instead of 5.

Another cool thing about decans is the way it works out when the Fire signs are assigned to Wands, Water to Cups, etc. The icing on the cake is the way it works out when pips 2 through 10 are divided into 3 groups of 3 cards each, the first 3 cards assigned to the cardinal sign of its suit/element, the second to fixed, and the third to mutable.

Of course, all this is more mathematical and analogical than astrological, but what the heck, it seems to work.

yes it is a nice little package ... until one gets to that doubled up Mars.

Have you you tried the variant approach where the planet of the first decan of a sign is the ruling planet of that sign, the planet of the second decan of the sign is the ruling planet of the next sign of that element and the third decan planet the ruling planet of the last sign of the element?

I keep wanting to plot it out and observe the different implication of these new planetary attributions (not the 'Chaldean order') in relation to card titles but I keep getting diverted by pressing annoying mundane issues

Aeon418 said:

It probably wouldn't bug you so much if you could disassociate the actual practice of astrology from the way that Tarot, Qabalah, Alchemy, etc.,...

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Wow, I think something is finally soaking in. Once again, my struggles have been self-made and largely unneccessary. In some ways I'm fortunate that I came to Tarot knowing very little about Astrology. And I also now think that study/use of the GD system will not teach me the exact "science" of modern day Astrology. Ah, I can feel my shoulders drop.

GD is its own method; it is what it is. Correspondences to other systems are not direct overlays, but speak to important relationships that are informative. Am I getting warm?

Nine of Pentacles, Venus / Virgo, is not really saying "the planet of Venus in the sign of Virgo." Am I starting to get that part right?