Aces as roots of the 4 elements

Crowley states:

The aces represent the roots of the four elements. They are quite above, and distinct from, the other small cards in the same way as Kether is said to be symbolized only by the topmost point of the Yod of Tetragrammaton.

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I don't see very well how this translates to the given divinatory meanings of the Ace of Cups and the Ace of Disks.

Ace of Cups
meaning: productivity, conception, beauty, love, pleasure, happiness

I can understand the meaning of productivity in the sense that water(he) is the realm of the creative. But water is in principle inactive, which is presented by conception. And do you use conception in practise as "receptivity" or "receival"?
The other four meanings don't bring out something special about the ace, as they can be found elsewhere.

Ace of Disks
meaning:material gain, power, labor, wealth, contentment.
Instructs that matter is entirely of the substance of Spirit, and of the Creative
Light of the Sun.

Those meanings can all be found among the other pip cards, so how do we show the Spirit-value of the ace of disks in a divination?

I think that somewhere in the Book of Thoth Crowley states that the aces are the most difficult to give a divinatory explanation of. This is perhaps because divination is the least important function of the deck and in the cases of the aces ( ) this shows through.

They give a general indication of the energy ... a 'high node' of the energy ... an indication that that energy can manifest in many forms depending on how it is used.

If I say it is raining ... that is like an Ace ... what does it mean? Not much.

Now, what we can use that rain for ... that is like the pip cards in the suit; the garden is watered ... the water tank is filling ... the car may get bogged in the swampy part of my driveway.

IMO water is very active ... it combines (activity) with many things as it is 1/3 oxygen = 'rust' ... or 'slow fire' (or slow combustion) ... symbolic water (as an idealistic principle) can be very active as well; the emotions, the unconscious, etc. However it can be still and 'receive' thereby becoming 'passive'.

All meanings of the aces can be found elsewhere in the suit as the ace contains the whole suit in potential, as yet, undifferentiated . Yet not all pips contain the Ace of the suit.

Another way is to see the four aces as the four rivers running out of paradise. On their course they meet different energies and their 'potential comes out'; waterfalls, lakes, rapids, canyons, swamps, etc.

I also like to view the aces as the four elemental weapons of the magician ... much can then be gleaned about the aces energy by studying the symbology and usage of these 'weapons' (or tools).

Also they represent the four divisions of the psyche and many other things that come in a 'map of four'.

Broaden the map, distil and extract.

It's a good question, but I doubt there is a single good answer. I myself usually have trouble with the Aces in readings, because how does one interpret "Something-flavored Nothing?" I don't have much to add to ravenest's post, he said many things I would have said and many more I wish I had thought of.

Water as passive is a simplification. In many ways it is just as active as Fire, but in a different way. Its action is in its inaction, it is wholly bent on inhibiting the movement of Fire (if we're talking Kabbalistically, Binah accepting Chochma into it). Its action is internal

I don't see water as inactive, because it takes feminine-active (or feminine-masculine) form. It is the creative force battling within the itself for control, as water is out-of-control.

Fire Cat said:

I don't see water as inactive, because it takes feminine-active (or feminine-masculine) form. It is the creative force battling within the itself for control, as water is out-of-control.

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Water? ... Out of control ??? Okay FIREcat

IMO fire is the one that gets out of control (says the 'Cancer Crab' ruled by Neptune) ... heck there is a helicopter zooming past this morning with a big water bucket hanging off a cable underneath it! And fortunately for air .... the wind changed direction so there isn't all that smoke here anymore.

Fire Cat said:

I don't see water as inactive, because it takes feminine-active (or feminine-masculine) form. It is the creative force battling within the itself for control, as water is out-of-control.

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I don't know if I wholly agree with this. I do agree that water has active forms, but the quality of stillness is important for creation, it is Binah creating space, stopping the force of Chochma while absorbing it at the same time. The Hanged Man, as the water elemental, might show a state of incubation, and there is certainly something going on inside a womb, vessel, etc., but what makes water "special" is exactly that quality of inaction, allowing things to take place inside it. Since the HM is male, for a variety of reasons, inside a female element, and so does not give birth, he can do little more than be the foetus, suffering that which the womb presses upon him. For this one could draw, as this is the Thoth we're talking about, analogies of Hadit inside Nuit, lost in the embrace of the Beloved, a facet of ecstatic union with the HGA and of course, the HGA of the Piscean age, the Suffering and Dying God.

One could analyze the "action" part of water, but one shouldn't forget the inaction. Hence the Ace of Cups is closely related to the Hanged Man, the Queen of Cups in the purity of the idea of receptiveness.

Hmmm ... how about each ace 'transmitting' the power of its elemental major to the elemental minor suit .

I suppose it COULD apply in a divination/reading where there is a progression from say 1 : 2 : 3 :: elemental major : elemental ace : specific elemental minor ; the 'path of action' of 3 leads to an access to the Major ??? (Just musing on 'unusual dignitaries' .)

It is an interesting question, how elemental are the elementals? They seem more to show, as befitting Paths, a demonstration of the elements rather than the abstract purity of the Aces. The Aeon seemingly shows the purifying aspects of fire, extinguishing the old for the new, ecpyrosis, hence creation by destruction. The Hanged Man could be a symbolic representation of the foetus, as I said before, and so it is perhaps a picture of internal growth, incubation, immobility, suffering. The most perplexing is of course the Fool, who is always put in a special place.

My guess is the Aces are wild cards, strengthening or weakening according to dignity. I certainly don't like the standard LWB meanings for them, including those in the BoT. The Aces, having no inherent nature of their own except for their elements, seem to me to add a certain "atmosphere" to the reading.

I could have done a better job with that post.

What I should have written, and I just wanted to put in a quick comment; but I agree with what you said in response to post about inaction. I was making a comment that it can't be competely inactive, in that there is something yet going on unlike earth. A comparison earlier with earth would have helped; that is the angle I was coming from, but still was lazy and didn't post about it.

Generally speaking, about water-out-of-control: It is the most destructive force on earth, not only because of its power but also its abundance. And its always moving. It causes more deaths every year, accidents and natural disasters included. So yes, I would say that's a little out-of-control. Fires are few in comparison with water emergencies; and even if there is a fire, "he who controls the water controls the fire". Water is powerful force because of its potential energy it has cannot be allowed it to be soley inactive. Other water signs (cards) point to a comparison with fire and water and the reaction that occurs.

If we could clarify that adjective inactive and the noun inaction. The word "inactive" is not necessarily the adjective form of "inaction", as it were; in the same way, reaction and reactive are not wholly true complements.

Perhaps guided meditation is a good analogy (reminds me of the Hanged Man) meditation fitting in with your "internally active"), "productivity, conception, beauty, love, pleasure, happiness"... And water is a life-sustaining force, carrying with it energy that earth does not have. The Ace of Cups is "one" of my meditation cards when it comes up in readings (incidentally so is the Chariot--a water sign). the 6 of Cups being the other...

The aces definitely provide a conundrum in divinatory practice. I actually find all four aces to have a relatively similar practical meaning much of the time. I see them as representative of a potential path where all of the energies representative of the element involved are there, but have absolutely no definition as of yet. For instance, we see the Ace of Wands as a potential new path (Due to the fact that this form of a lack of structure is atypical of an established path) which has active energy coalescing down into a new and unstructured path which CAN be structured in any way according to the actions taken and the thoughts had. This means that the path can now progress in literally any way, but the energies involved are most easily taken to a path of Fire. I compare this to stepping onto the end of a path moving through the woods continuing forward and entering a glade. This glade has no paths leading to or from it, and you move to the center. You can now progress in any way and forge an absolutely new path for yourself (Including going back the way you came). There are easier and harder paths, but they all are viable options. You now get to decide which path to take, and how to take it.

I'm tired, so I'm not sure how much of this makes sense, but that's as close to the gist of it as I can get right now