Meaning & Image

My head exploded long ago.

If there is meaning without understanding, does it make it a true meaning? Or is it only meaningful in the realm of the individual who understands it?

Some Zappa lyrics:

"Hi! It's me... the girl from the bus...
Remember? The last tour? Well...
Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is THE BEST...
Wisdom is the domain of the Wis
(which is extinct).
Beauty is a French phonetic corruption
Of a short cloth neck ornament
Currently in resurgence..."

Yes, I think we are constantly building meaning on what appears around us- or without the thing we are experiencing there is no need to find/build meaning. Language gives voice to meaning, but first gives voice to the thing we are experiencing.

Kwaw said:

and in a way are we not all born into a cacophony of meaningless signs impressing themselves upon our senses - and in that sense say that signs come first, then meaning? Do we construct meaning via storing up a stock of how those signs respond or adapt to our responses to them?

Click to expand...

I have been trying to think of something that we know about as adults that might explain what I mean.

A plane fly's over Papua New Guinea to the amazement of Tribe beneath in the Jungle. They have never seen a plane before. The have of course seen birds, but not ones like this that makes a loud sound, or is shiny in the Sun.
The bird's mouth opens and drops large flying eggs that fall in the Jungle.
The tribe wonders what is the meaning of this. So they set about to give meaning to this experience. They know their God lives up there and is one day going to come and bring them things. So the image of a plane that drops eggs- can only be God in the form of a large shiny bird. So word travels far and wide of visiting God, and when the next plane comes and lands they are all there to welcome God. The cargo cult of New Guinea is born.
So from the day we are born as Kwaw has said we are bombarded with images, and then we build a meaning to them. They can be erroneous of course- these meanings, but the images have to be there first. If image of Mother's face came when instinct of feeling hunger arrived, and did not feed me- but another face came and shoved bottle in my mouth; I would not put meaning to image of Mother's face and food.
So I look at image(when picture), which is reflection of something and build meaning from my experience. I am I right? I am wrong?
~Rosanne

Rosanne said:

So I look at image(when picture), which is reflection of something and build meaning from my experience. I am I right? I am wrong?
~Rosanne

Click to expand...

Nice one Rosanne - I think you're right.

I think.....

kwaw said:

In short, I tend to agree "that we build it" and that it is like the cathedral at Barcelona, under constant construction and forever unfinished, and all the more marvellous for it.

Click to expand...

Nice one - that's funny. Though I wish they would get ON with that cathedral..... I'd have loved for it to get further while the greater Gaudi strength was still with it.... It feels to be getting a bit watered down in patches.

Rosanne said:

A plane fly's over Papua New Guinea to the amazement of Tribe beneath in the Jungle. They have never seen a plane before. The have of course seen birds, but not ones like this that makes a loud sound, or is shiny in the Sun.
The bird's mouth opens and drops large flying eggs that fall in the Jungle.
The tribe wonders what is the meaning of this. So they set about to give meaning to this experience. They know their God lives up there and is one day going to come and bring them things. So the image of a plane that drops eggs- can only be God in the form of a large shiny bird. So word travels far and wide of visiting God, and when the next plane comes and lands they are all there to welcome God. The cargo cult of New Guinea is born.

Click to expand...

... years pass by and one day,while travelling some misterious and less walked ways,a brave Western scientiest equipped with presumably vast knowledge arrives at a remoted country where to his amazement he discovers the cargo cult... Western scientist laughs with disdain at what he believes to be an primitive interpretation of such a modern transport mean as he walks to the cave where the local tribe worships the higher power which they choose to call C.A.R.G.O. The scientist is taken by surprise when inside the cave he sees beautifully and skilfully reproduced sketches of Leonardo da Vinchi helicopter prototypes, tribe's shaman greets him warmly and offers him a snack with Southwest Airlines Co.written on it.

So if we want to change our experience of an image is it possible that this can be done by changing the image?
Damn! that sounds clumsy.
Look, when the space program took photos of the World from space- we all had an image of what earth looked like from outer space. Before that we could only imagine what it was like to look at. What meaning did we each ascribe to that image? My initial reaction as a child was "Jeeze we should all be fish!" The meaning I took was that the Earth was made for fish. I had to deconstruct this as my experience is that I am not a fish- all the Humans are not fish -so my experience is at odds with the image. So I then need to construct an image that reflected that image of humans living on a water planet.
I think maybe we can deconstruct the meaning of cards and make new ones, that more accurately depict not only what is, but what can be. Hmmmm, not sure I am not on shaky ground here.
~Rosanne

The relation between image and meaning can change.

An image may come to lose its meaning through a different understanding, as for example the tribe may come to learn the cargo plane is a cargo plane.

An image may become stigmatised through a negative association, as for example the subversion of the swastika through association with the Nazis.

An image may change from the unfamiliar to something we are familiar with via a similarity of form (for example a polo stick may become a baton).

An image may...

gregory said:

The images (all images) have meaning. Where did the meaning come from ?

Oops.

*hangs herself.*

Click to expand...

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but when I am designing my cards (Tarot Bella) I decide what I want the image to portray, so the meaning is in my head and then I make the image to show that meaning, now others see more in the image than I originally did, and that is a good thing, but they also see the meaning.

Have I confused things further

Rosanne said:

So if we want to change our experience of an image is it possible that this can be done by changing the image?
Damn! that sounds clumsy.
Look, when the space program took photos of the World from space- we all had an image of what earth looked like from outer space. Before that we could only imagine what it was like to look at. What meaning did we each ascribe to that image? My initial reaction as a child was "Jeeze we should all be fish!" The meaning I took was that the Earth was made for fish. I had to deconstruct this as my experience is that I am not a fish- all the Humans are not fish -so my experience is at odds with the image. So I then need to construct an image that reflected that image of humans living on a water planet.
I think maybe we can deconstruct the meaning of cards and make new ones, that more accurately depict not only what is, but what can be. Hmmmm, not sure I am not on shaky ground here.
~Rosanne

Click to expand...

*joining Rosanne on the shaky ground*
Maybe we are fish who choose to call themselves human? Maybe it's not the experience itself that needed deconstruction, but what its called? Maybe the genuin name of the experience was lost since the times when humanty tried to built the Tower of Babel?

HoneyBea said:

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but when I am designing my cards (Tarot Bella) I decide what I want the image to portray, so the meaning is in my head and then I make the image to show that meaning, now others see more in the image than I originally did, and that is a good thing, but they also see the meaning.

Have I confused things further

Click to expand...

No, to the contrary, i personally love hearing practitioners (creators) along with theoreticians

edited for typos