The Bohemian Gothic Tarot

I'm still dying to see that King of Pentacles up close! He has such a regal and haunting look about him. He looks like he has so many stories to tell. I want to shake him up from his death bed and ask him a few questions!

I've been wanting to tap into my darker side. It looks like you are going to give me that opportunity in a grand way. Now, if I could just get you and Alex to make me up a Gothic reading list for the summer, I will be all set! You didn't know I was going to ask for homework, did you?!!

room said:

By editing and publishing decks by others, do you mean publishing original decks by a single artist, in the manner of US Games for instance, or do you mean more of the collaged and coloured clip art style of deck that you've published in the past year?

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Clip art? Sound of dull thud!

We've never used clip art in our lives - eek. Sorry, I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but we spent more than $1000 on the source books for the VR - and they took us two years to track down. The problem with clip art is that the quality and resolution tend to be very poor so for this and other reasons we avoid it. Much of the imagery we incorporate into decks is substantially changed and redrawn and in many ways I think it's a different type of collage from most. I suppose the best term I can think of is "seamless collage" - so seamless that in most cases people don't realise the extent to which the image is made by us.

But in answer to the question, I mean we will publish decks by other artists (ie we will not do the artwork ourselves) - though perhaps not US Games style - I just think we might be interested in rather different things. Quite how this will work I'm not sure yet - we have been talking to a few artists and eventually hope that something will come of this. As yet we are not keen to take submissions for decks, although we are interested in talking to artists and illustrators about ideas.

Apocalipstick said:

I guess I should clarify "pushing the envelope."

I tend to be bored silly by most recent horror films. They leave little to the imagination, which is where the darkest work is done.

(Maupassant's "La Horla" comes to mind here.)

I certainly do not mean blood, guts, gore. I do however think of the genuine chill (again, that word) that reading M.R. James's "Lost Hearts" brings.

I'm more interested in exchanging ideas than criticism.

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Yes, me too. And I took it as discussion, not criticism. Yes, it's the M.R.James, "Turn of the Screw", LeFanu and Stoker type of feeling that we are after. I think basically we're talking about the same thing. But some people may perhaps be disappointed that there won't be graphic monsters and blood in this deck. I think however that the implied style of Gothic just suits tarot better. As you say, it lets things take shape in the imagination.

Have to say that I realise my Irish prejudices (LeFanu, Clarke, Stoker) are showing themselves tonight on this thread but hey, it's St Patrick's Day so I'm allowed

baba-prague said:

We've never used clip art in our lives - eek. Sorry, I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but we spent more than $1000 on the source books for the VR - and they took us two years to track down.

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Yes that definition is correct. As well as bundles of images that you can buy, clip art is defined as using images from pre-existing printed works in other publishing projects. The fact that you are not clipping the art but scanning it from pre-existing source books doesn't change that, although you are not using bundled images as distributed by a company like Dover.

Much of the imagery we incorporate into decks is substantially changed and redrawn and in many ways I think it's a different type of collage from most.

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Collage is defined as an artistic composition consisting of images from various sources pasted on a picture surface. The word comes from the Latin "colla" and the Greek "kolla" which both mean "glue." If you are "gluing" the images using a computer program that does not change the definition.

I mean we will publish decks by other artists (ie we will not do the artwork ourselves) - though perhaps not US Games style - I just think we might be interested in rather different things.

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Well that sounds very interesting, good luck with these new explorations.

Come on people!! Let those of us that want to get excited about this deck do so!! AND let others voice some of their thoughts too! LittleBuddha was being very nice IMO bringing up his thoughts without being nasty. Can't we all play nice?

baba-prague said:

Clip art? Sound of dull thud!

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Karen, most of us know you don't use clip art!! (giggle) Don't worry!

faunabay said:

Karen, most of us know you don't use clip art!! (giggle) Don't worry!

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Thanks I think I'll just let this part of the conversation lie in case the whole thread gets derailed.

But the point I was making is that we redraw the images in most cases - collage artists generally don't do that. It's not to do with how the image is captured and pasted, it's to do with the work - the drawing and colouring - that's then added to it. The problem that leads to confusion, perhaps, is that Alex does this so seamlessly that people can't see it. Which, of course, is the whole idea. We need some term for what we do (perhaps I should invent one ). I think it's actually quite like some film techniques in a way.

Anyway, as I say, going on about this is only going to defocus the thread. Perhaps if it's worth discussing further it could be done in Tarot Creation?

"pushing the envelope" with respect to the horror/gothic genre has become synonymous with pushing the envelope in only one way-- breaking taboos concerning gore and sex.

That's a pity, because there have been many other ways to push the envelope, and Magic Realist tends to be pretty darn envelope pushy:

*Abandoning suit signs
*Diverging from RWS scenes
*Theming a deck around a city, and letting artifacts and architecture star
*Unnumbering the Major Arcana
*Adding variant cards

Magic Realist I think deserves, and has received, much credit in the PTE category.

Other designers' pushes of the Tarot envelope I've admired:

*Removing detail, as in the International Icon Tarot
*HP Lovecraft Tarot
*Halloween Tarot

So far, I've been very impressed with the BG. I considered changing the 9 of swords from a static to an active scene was a form of PTE; so too is a young Queen of Swords. I gave the Queen of Swords some thought and realized that confusion about the roles of the young and the old is one of the trope of Gothic: the "old soul" in the young body.

Pagan X said:

I gave the Queen of Swords some thought and realized that confusion about the roles of the young and the old is one of the trope of Gothic: the "old soul" in the young body.

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Yes, I have been rereading a book on the Gothic in literature and this point comes up. Women who are confident and/or powerful and/or interested in sex are also, in the Gothic, portrayed as divergent from the normal and threatening - and therefore inviting destruction. Once we read, in Dracula, Lucy's petulant suggestion that women be allowed to marry three men at once, we know that she won't last long!

The whole attitude of the Gothic to women is fascinating - we are including many women in the deck and they will not just be victims in diaphanous dresses (need evil grin smilie here).

"We need some term for what we do (perhaps I should invent one ..."

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How about borrowing a term from film-land, and calling it 'photocompositing'?

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