ravenest
Okay then ... let's go through it bit by bit.
I have never heard or known of a need for Babalon to be flattered
I am not going to do a full analysis on the meaning ... in any case I was more on about the cup and one's ability to change the formula inside it , but lets leave that as that is a minor side to what I meant to high light.
?
" ... the drink is also mentioned in the Odyssey Book X when the sorceress Circe uses it,
mixed with honey, to make her potion." http://www.ancient.eu.com/Kykeon/
I am referring more to this aspect of the Kykeon;
" Kykeon is most famous, however, for its use in the Rites of Demeter at the city of Eleusis where it was used by initiates to experience the mystery of death and rebirth in the ritual which came to be known as The Eleusinian Mysteries. This mixture, however, differed significantly from the common drink in that it had psychoactive properties, most likely caused by the fungus Ergot on the barley gathered around Eleusis, which allowed initiates in the Mysteries to reach a fuller understanding of their purpose in life and to shed their fear of death; as testimonials from ancient writers who participated in the Mysteries attest. " http://www.ancient.eu.com/Kykeon/
Now have a look at the card again and read what crowley wrote about it. Also Crowley's Rites of Eleusis help to explain further; 7 rites (originally designed each with its own specific draught ) one for each planet ... one for each 'head'.
Good point and reminder ... all of this needs to be done with his assistance and 'association'.
Like I said, not going to analyze Greek myths here ... but I can go along with the idea about Lilith ... some aspects I see 'in ' Babalon can be equated to some I see in Lilith ... but I didnt want to go into that as they ARE different things and one cant substitute one for the other.
I totally agree with you there. But that doesnt mean that a Thelemite, or any one that uses the Thoth deck has to see Babalon that way. In this view some may have seen Margaret Thatcher as Babalon.
I see it like this; The 'inner church' and 'real Christians' see the false outer bullshit that got generated and took over the church as Babalon ... it became the 'system' . In this context it is also Ancient Rome ... the corrupt system of oppression
Heck ! Even I use that terminology ... when I am with Aboriginal friends at their camp and I need to go to town for supplies I might say to them , in a thick fake Rastafarian accent (you left out the Rasta reference to Babylon
) ; " Mon ! Baldy got to go to Babylon ... who wants what? " Babylon is corruption.
There is another perspective from INSIDE the church ... the outside that is trying to break in is corruption - Babylon ... the forces that the corrupt church is trying to suppress THEY see as Babylon ; she is terrifying, she has evil forces at her command, ( thats an old one - of course, the woman cant be strong by herself ... she can never defeat, outfight or stop me ... if she does, she must have evil forces on her side ... a witch ! Burn her ! ... I can not be defeated by a woman , but the devil can do that - it is a very old stance. And worst of all (for the RCC hierarchy ) she is a woman !
Crowley saw Babalon as the forces that would overturn the power of the church and by that, decrease its hold on the world and the damage it does. yes, women will rise up to equality and yes, some men will support them and hopefully institutions like the RCC (and especially what has been revealed lately about that institution ) will collapse.
All power to her I say.
But remember, there are two sides to view what Babalon / Babylon is ... perhaps this is why confusion has arisen ?
I actually had hoped you would read the other references I supplied as well ... instead of just picking apart the first one ... which is fine ... as hopefully something was cleared up ? But if it IS transubstantiation you WERE interested in exploring you might find the references interesting and leading to clearer places of comprehension .
* Not just Marxists ... I heard a wonderful Black Preacher speak on the revelation of apocalypse and what it meant to them. The church was a true Christian fellowship and the ideals of the American nation , Babylon was the corruption that had come in, to do with all sorts of things but primarily racial prejudice and inequality. Martin Luther KIng was like Jesus and the final outcome of equality and acceptance was the 'New Jerusalem ' that would 'descend' from 'heaven'.
I have never heard or known of a need for Babalon to be flattered
I am not going to do a full analysis on the meaning ... in any case I was more on about the cup and one's ability to change the formula inside it , but lets leave that as that is a minor side to what I meant to high light.
?
" ... the drink is also mentioned in the Odyssey Book X when the sorceress Circe uses it,
mixed with honey, to make her potion." http://www.ancient.eu.com/Kykeon/
I am referring more to this aspect of the Kykeon;
" Kykeon is most famous, however, for its use in the Rites of Demeter at the city of Eleusis where it was used by initiates to experience the mystery of death and rebirth in the ritual which came to be known as The Eleusinian Mysteries. This mixture, however, differed significantly from the common drink in that it had psychoactive properties, most likely caused by the fungus Ergot on the barley gathered around Eleusis, which allowed initiates in the Mysteries to reach a fuller understanding of their purpose in life and to shed their fear of death; as testimonials from ancient writers who participated in the Mysteries attest. " http://www.ancient.eu.com/Kykeon/
Now have a look at the card again and read what crowley wrote about it. Also Crowley's Rites of Eleusis help to explain further; 7 rites (originally designed each with its own specific draught ) one for each planet ... one for each 'head'.
Good point and reminder ... all of this needs to be done with his assistance and 'association'.
Like I said, not going to analyze Greek myths here ... but I can go along with the idea about Lilith ... some aspects I see 'in ' Babalon can be equated to some I see in Lilith ... but I didnt want to go into that as they ARE different things and one cant substitute one for the other.
*
I totally agree with you there. But that doesnt mean that a Thelemite, or any one that uses the Thoth deck has to see Babalon that way. In this view some may have seen Margaret Thatcher as Babalon.
I see it like this; The 'inner church' and 'real Christians' see the false outer bullshit that got generated and took over the church as Babalon ... it became the 'system' . In this context it is also Ancient Rome ... the corrupt system of oppression
Heck ! Even I use that terminology ... when I am with Aboriginal friends at their camp and I need to go to town for supplies I might say to them , in a thick fake Rastafarian accent (you left out the Rasta reference to Babylon
) ; " Mon ! Baldy got to go to Babylon ... who wants what? " Babylon is corruption.There is another perspective from INSIDE the church ... the outside that is trying to break in is corruption - Babylon ... the forces that the corrupt church is trying to suppress THEY see as Babylon ; she is terrifying, she has evil forces at her command, ( thats an old one - of course, the woman cant be strong by herself ... she can never defeat, outfight or stop me ... if she does, she must have evil forces on her side ... a witch ! Burn her ! ... I can not be defeated by a woman , but the devil can do that - it is a very old stance. And worst of all (for the RCC hierarchy ) she is a woman !
Crowley saw Babalon as the forces that would overturn the power of the church and by that, decrease its hold on the world and the damage it does. yes, women will rise up to equality and yes, some men will support them and hopefully institutions like the RCC (and especially what has been revealed lately about that institution ) will collapse.
All power to her I say.
But remember, there are two sides to view what Babalon / Babylon is ... perhaps this is why confusion has arisen ?
I actually had hoped you would read the other references I supplied as well ... instead of just picking apart the first one ... which is fine ... as hopefully something was cleared up ? But if it IS transubstantiation you WERE interested in exploring you might find the references interesting and leading to clearer places of comprehension .
* Not just Marxists ... I heard a wonderful Black Preacher speak on the revelation of apocalypse and what it meant to them. The church was a true Christian fellowship and the ideals of the American nation , Babylon was the corruption that had come in, to do with all sorts of things but primarily racial prejudice and inequality. Martin Luther KIng was like Jesus and the final outcome of equality and acceptance was the 'New Jerusalem ' that would 'descend' from 'heaven'.
Anyhow, I've always thought of theosophists as being somewhat prim and proper. 