Frank Booth's least favorite Noblet Atouts...

Forgive my use of a (possibly obscure) pop culture figure in the title...First, Frank Booth (for those of you who have not seen/heard of this film) was a character played by Dennis Hopper in the film "Blue Velvet" who had a serious problem with people looking directly at him.

Okay, so I have been looking at my Noblet, and a few of its images have been looking right back. That Empress is the first one to really catch my eye, since I had gotten quite used to her gaze being to either one side or the other in my other Marseille decks and their cousins.

Why is she looking straight ahead? Why does her face and the one on the Sun look so similar?

Then, there is the Justice card, same direct look from her. (and to my eyes, her face calls to mind the face on the Moon card)

The only other character who looks so directly at me/you is the Devil. Though his gaze is the least "lifelike" among the ones I mention.

I am unsure of the Jugement angel's gaze, since his/her eyes are crossed, it is hard to say where s/he is looking.

Anyway, my point in creating this thread is to discuss why they may be looking directly at us from their cards....is there a connection between the lady on the Justice card and the Empress? Anyone else curious about this?

Yes I'm curious!

In fact I have mentioned this recently when looking at the Majors lined up.

The Empress, Justice and Devil are the ones that struck me as having this one thing in common, and in terms of reading I could see it as relating to timing.

Their gaze being directly at the reader is significant to me. Other Majors which could be called 'people' cards face either to the past or the future, but the Empress, Justice and Devil all appear to be in this very moment, the present. They are giving a direct message for right now.

It's A little odd, but so are the Numbers....

Ever since I started playing with the layout some things numerically are patterns too.
The forward gazes are 111, V111, X111, XV111.
Even though death's skull is turned to it's left the pupil is straight forward. The Sun is usually straight forward in most Decks with the full Sun.
So you have Life, Justice, Death and Moon. Maybe this indicates what Tarot is about.
Three (3): Creative Power, growth, forward movement overcoming duality,Expression. The Three (Triad) is the first number to which ALL has been appropriated, because it contains the Beginning, a Middle and an End. It also speaks of nature as Heaven, Earth and the Waters, Birth, Life and Death under the Moon (which has three phases).I have always found it weird that Death is the element water, but this makes sense. In Justice the number three is about life, for Justice represents Law, order and Truth. Scales are seen on Priestesses in the cult of the Great Mother, who is called the Contoller of the Waves- meaning it is the Justice that rules the Earth with a double Three- Love.
The direct forward gaze certainly gets to you and maybe this is why.
~Rosanne

Further to the Numbers: If you put card V with Card 111 You get Justice. Five (V) is the Number of Man, and in a Christian sense Man after the Fall ( the time when he learned also to create) This is Man and creativity with Truth, Order and Law.
Life turns- Ten (X) the number of the Cosmos, the pattern of creation- so you get X + 111 = Death (also Truth, Law and Order).
Then Man and change V + X = XV This is our lot we are chained to this. Take it one step further- here we are under the moon with life and death and ain't that the Truth, the Law, and the order of things. XV111 !!!
No wonder the main players are looking straight at us, and will continue to do so until the penny drops.

Great stuff Rosanne, this is the type of mind doodling that I do all the time with the Marseilles, (and more recently with the Noblet). I'm glad to see I have buddies in this.

You mention Death's 'eyeballing' which is also something I have noticed and it's interesting to have a play with Majors XII, XIII, XIIII and XV (Le Pendu, Death, Temperance and Devil), particularly if you lay them out in reverse order. Then you see how Death eyeballs Temperance who in turn looks directly at the Devil's captives. And the severed heads on the Death card look directly at Le Pendu. It's as though they have a message for each other.

Yay, I am glad there are others who are curious about this....sorry I have been trying to catch up on my course reading (I am in jmd's class now too!).

I had not noticed Death's stare at all, thank you for pointing it out. But, I have seen a few of the relationships you both mentioned, while trying out the Camoin method info I have recently come across. (I did break the "rules" by using the Noblet rather than the Camoin deck)

The number relationships you posted, Rosanne, are so cool. I first read it, and didn't really get what you meant, but now I see it. How III and V together add up to Justice, etc...Thank you for posting those. Something is really starting to open up for me with all of this, but I am not able to put it into words coherently yet. I am very excited!

There are too my mind, 4 seven card sets of numbers and 1 three card set, that you place with the prime set of Le Pape/WOF/LeDiable.
I can explain it this way.Think Medieval Catholic/Christian lol
What is the Bateleur's (1) set..
1 + V = V1 (you might laugh, but he needs Baptism and God's Blessing through the church)
1 + X = X1 He needs Strength to deal with Change/time/Life
1+ XV = XV1 He needs this life to effect change in himself for the next (overcoming evil)
So you do this with Cards 11, 111, 1111 as well. Place them with V/X/XV
11 + V = V11 for example and make your associations.
For me, I had to decide the meaning of the core group V/X/XV cards. I had always thought of cards 0/1/2/21 The most important- but I guess to the medieval Christian, who was told that salvation came through the Church alone; your salvation depended on how you dealt with the devil/Satan in life. Don't be a heretic and be in league with the Devil, do what the Pope says and oneday you will reign in heaven (or get the wheel of the Inquisitor for your heresy). Of course these images can mean something else to each of us, but the sets are very enlightening.
Take a look at the Emperor set lol. 1111/V1111/X1111/XV1111
Guess who he is eyeballing- his opposition- hehe -Le Pape. They had a great deal of need for each other back in those centuries. I bet Temperance was the most important quality to get them both to heaven.
It is starting to make sense this deck- I am glad it used this form of Roman Numerals.
~Rosanne

Moonbow* said:

Great stuff Rosanne, this is the type of mind doodling that I do all the time with the Marseilles, (and more recently with the Noblet). I'm glad to see I have buddies in this.

You mention Death's 'eyeballing' which is also something I have noticed and it's interesting to have a play with Majors XII, XIII, XIIII and XV (Le Pendu, Death, Temperance and Devil), particularly if you lay them out in reverse order. Then you see how Death eyeballs Temperance who in turn looks directly at the Devil's captives. And the severed heads on the Death card look directly at Le Pendu. It's as though they have a message for each other.

Click to expand...

Yes......the cards are "talking" among themselves... The question IS are we the readers listening....??

Mac22

Rosanne said:

It is starting to make sense this deck- I am glad it used this form of Roman Numerals.
~Rosanne

Click to expand...

Until you pointed this out elsewhere I hadn't noticed.... Plus in medieval times in some places it was illegal to Arabic numbers for commerce.

mac22

Rosanne said:

It is starting to make sense this deck- I am glad it used this form of Roman Numerals.
~Rosanne

Click to expand...

Yay, Rosanne! You are starting to maybe like this deck then?

Moonbow*, I really connect with your idea that the cards that face the "reader" are in the here and now...That is going to help me a lot in readings as well as enhance the reading itself.