Dipping my toe in Marseille pond

mac22

Ok I finally did it. I got serious about the Marseille decks. I was lucky enough to get in JMDs 30 week course [woohoo]. We're using the full Noblet deck.

But I still have a few questions I'd like to put here....:)

First, What was the Church's view on this new thing playing cards with trumps that had depictions of the Le Papesse , Le Pape, Le Diable, Ll batelevr with a penis in his hand? Is a human or [sacred] bull penis?

There is a definite intentional color scheme to the RWS what is the meaning of the Noblet color scheme or the entire Marseille for that matter?

The RWS minors retell the Grail tale....Is there theme yo the Noblet minors?

Thanks,

Mac22
 

thinbuddha

Well I can't answer your questions, but I can give you more to think about:

The "penis" in the hand of trump # 1 doesn't look as much like a penis in other decks as it does in the Noblet, and there is some dispute as to if it was even intended by Noblet to represent a penis at all.

Also, the church did have something to say about the cards representing the pope and the papess. Some decks do not have these cards in them (they are replaced by Jupiter and Juno) because the church took offense. It is not immediately clear to me why the pope/papess cards seemed to be accepted for a while, then suddenly in certian regions it was forbidden. Someone else will probably be able to addresss this better than I.

As for the color scheme. You are reading from the LWB that was included with the Noblet. I have my doubts as to how accurate this information is. It seems to me that it is much more likely that most of the people who colored these decks were placing the colors as they saw fit- not according to some ancient esoteric color scheme. (dodging rotten tomatos)

-tb
 

mac22

thinbuddha said:
Well I can't answer your questions, but I can give you more to think about:

The "penis" in the hand of trump # 1 doesn't look as much like a penis in other decks as it does in the Noblet, and there is some dispute as to if it was even intended by Noblet to represent a penis at all.

Also, the church did have something to say about the cards representing the pope and the papess. Some decks do not have these cards in them (they are replaced by Jupiter and Juno) because the church took offense. It is not immediately clear to me why the pope/papess cards seemed to be accepted for a while, then suddenly in certian regions it was forbidden. Someone else will probably be able to addresss this better than I.

As for the color scheme. You are reading from the LWB that was included with the Noblet. I have my doubts as to how accurate this information is. It seems to me that it is much more likely that most of the people who colored these decks were placing the colors as they saw fit- not according to some ancient esoteric color scheme. (dodging rotten tomatos)

-tb
Click to expand...

Hail Noblet classmate,

In other TdM decks the penis is a wand....:) I was intrigued that such an early deck had a penis in hand. And what the heck is in his other hand? I would have thought a Pope & Papess might have got someone burned at the stake....

As to the LWB I never read the LWB. :laugh:

mac22
 

thinbuddha

mac22 said:
what is the meaning of the Noblet color scheme or the entire Marseille for that matter?
Click to expand...

Oh- the LWB for the Noblet has a theory- but as I hinted at, I think that maybe the theory may be giving credit for more thought than actually went into the coloring. If you read that LWB, you will find a few pages dedicated to what the colors mean in Marseille decks.

Actually- it's a great LWB- far better than most LWB's are, so I reccomend that you read it if you are interested in Marseille decks (or really in tarot at all).

-tb
 

Moonbow

The LWB by Flornoy gives his own take on the colours of the Noblet. Although I may use colour in a divinatory way and it is useful occasionally, the colours are not standard in all Marseilles decks, (and all Marseilles decks aren't standard either!). The Tarot by Joseph Maxwell goes into the colours of the Marseilles, the Grimaud I believe from memory. Colour meanings seem to be down to the reader and whether they take them into consideration.

The theme to the Marseilles minors is... spiritual. At least to me.
 

dandelion

Hi there! :) I'm another fellow classmate in jmd's 30-wk-course ... just wanted to encourage you mac22 to read the little book as the others have suggested - this one actually has some thought-provoking ideas which I have found useful.

With regard to color symbolism, I am also skeptical about assigning too much significance to the colors, however fascinating the "esoteric system" appears -- but alternatively, I do often pay attention to patterns of color among cards within readings. ;)

happy studying,
-dandelion
 

mac22

dandelion said:
Hi there! :) I'm another fellow classmate in jmd's 30-wk-course ... just wanted to encourage you mac22 to read the little book as the others have suggested - this one actually has some thought-provoking ideas which I have found useful.

With regard to color symbolism, I am also skeptical about assigning too much significance to the colors, however fascinating the "esoteric system" appears -- but alternatively, I do often pay attention to patterns of color among cards within readings. ;)

happy studying,
-dandelion
Click to expand...

Ok, ok I took your & others advice I read the LWB.... [gasp] I was shocked --- the Noblet LWB was actually helpful & useful!!

So along with this week's lesson -- I'm learning a good deal about Marseille decks & the Noblet specifically.

I've also reading _Tarot Revelations_ by Campbell.

Mac22
 

mac22

I'm surprised that no one has commented with thoughts on why Noblet put a penis in Le Basteleur's hand? Second did the church attenpt to supress the tarot?

mac22
 

le pendu

mac22 said:
Second did the church attenpt to supress the tarot?
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I think that's a great question

I suspect it might get very interesting, and possible a bit controversial.

Do you think it might deserve a thread of it's own? Are you interested specifically in the Noblet? Just the Marseille?
 
Melanchollic's Verses Frank Booth's least favorite Noblet Atouts...