3 Epées (Swords) - how may it be read?

firemaiden

kwaw said:
By cabbalistic exegesis this card represents the impregnation of the holy spirit in the virgin womb and thus a bride of the lord, interesting in this respect that both waite and mathers attribute a nun(ie, a bride of the lord) to this card,[/i] by extension though rarely spiritual awakening, rebirth, realization of the presence of the christ within. On another level and more often than not sexual excess and folly, rape, sexual abuse, prostitution, something used and then tossed away, betrayal, idolisation of a person who may abuse your obsession, unreciprocated love, the shattering of rose tinted glasses. Loss of virginity, innocence, purity [in this connection the pierced flower head which encircles the blade could be read as deflowering], seduction, moral delinquency.

Wow, this (and kwaw's whole post) was fascinating. Was this string of negative meanings those proferred by Waite and Mathers?

How something so positive as the"holy spirit within the virgin womb" gets to meaning rape and sexual abuse... One would think it would represent fertilisation of the mind... a filling of the inner well with inspiration, inner richness...

In my Camoin version of the Three of Swords there is no deflowered flower, but there are two cut leafy twigs, crossed behind the central (red) sword, and they appear to be bleeding where they were cut.

Two bleeding twigs also show up in the Ace. Much more suggestive of "deflowering", I should think, would be this ace, with it's sword penetrating a crown, and unleashing its rain. (I have a suspicion we'll be doing the Ace of Swords next :D)
 

tmgrl2

Excellent observation, fm.

I backed up to look at the Camoin.

I'll post the Camoin (on the left) and the Hadar(on the right) below, just for references.

I hadn't noticed the cut branches in the Camoin before, nor the red tips....also the red blade.

Looking at these two side by side, I see the Camoin as being more "earthy" in nature, definitely more passionate and creative (red blade). The Hadar looks more austere and intellectual to me.

Learning vs. knowledge in the three of swords. There is intellectual enthusiasm, a passion to learn and study, but an immaturity that needs to "blossom." Hence the cutting of the twigs before the flowering is done? with the red sword attempting to unite the two branches so that the evolution may occur.

I wonder if the cutting could also be like a "lack of flow in ideas?"

Again, a not quite mature concept, but one that is strong and passionate on its way to being born.

terri
 

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Moongold

I am struck by the differences in the various types of Marseille.

The Fournier is much more like the Camoin, with differences in colour. The entire background of the Fournier is blue and the blade of the epee is golden, the handle red. In the Lo Scarabeo Conver, the blade of the epee is red and the handle blue, the background cream. It looks quite ancient.

Kwaw's interpretation is interesting, seemingly based on his possibly correct (I don't know) understanding of what occurred in convents way back then. But to bring this into a contemporary interpretation? It raises the question for me of relating contemporary interpretations to one's (of necessity imperfect) understanding of what would have happened in those long ago times. I can remember (I think) Diana saying that understanding the Marseille would be helped by understanding the times of its genesis.

Also, Kwaw, your astrological model seems a little bit off the wall to me but I have not seen it its entirety so reserve judgment on that one.

I guess every individual can bring their own vision to this. That is part of Tarot anyway - the interpretation of each image by the individual reader.
 

Paul

I’ll add in my 2-cents.

Tagging onto the previous interesting posts on the union of the masculine with the feminine vesica piscis…Take a peek at the Hindu Siva Lingam pictures I have posted:

Lingam Top View
Lingam Side View

(Yeah, I know, here I go again with the Hindu angle.) ;)

This image mirrors the previously posted ideas of the “phallic” sword piercing the 2 swords forming a type of Yoni, if you will. Of course, the Hindu would not associate the Siva Lingam-Yoni with sex, per se, in terms of its mundane aspect, but in terms of its spiritual associations with primordial creative powers uniting to form a firstfruit. The Lingam is known as the “Wand of Light,” which channels creative energy and joy.

I see the Three’s in general as symbolizing growth, increase, progress, coming together, good fit, firstfruits. Three’s are ruled by Jupiter in Vedic and Chaldean Numerology. Three’s are the VAU, after the YOD (lingam) and HE (Yoni) unite.

I see swords as embodying my 3 P’s: Planning (Paperwork), Politics, Power. The 3 Epees decan (for me only) is Mercury in Libra.
(fyi -I place the decans starting at the Ace, not the 2 like the GD, and follow a system of triplicities in assigning rulerships.)

For me, this card has often represented a type of positive political maneuvering, simpatico in important relationships, plans that are coming together well, good negotiations, effective diplomacy, eloquence, solutions. Of course, the subject of the reading combined with the general ideas of the 3 Epees will allow one to be more specific.

In terms of actual sexual activity, I pair such an idea with the Cups.
 

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kwaw

Moongold said:
Kwaw, your astrological model seems a little bit off the wall to me but I have not seen it its entirety so reserve judgment on that one.

It is an alternative model that I am currently experimenting with, some of it fits nicely, some of it doesn't and I am reserving judgement myself upon how useful or not it may be.

Playing around with the old style square format horoscope, and linking the four suits with four directions rather than four elements:

The pips 2-10 of each suit gives a naturally
dintinctive set of 36 cards which would seem to me would naturally be
applied to the 36 decans [if indeed they were]. Why two to ten?
Because technically speaking 'number' is plural and 'one' as such
being singular is not a number. While many people nowadays are
perhaps unfamiliar or unaware of this distinction it was commonly
applied pre-1800s [Nicholas of Cusa makes heavy use of this
distinction in his philophical/theological speculations]. Also, unlike the other pip cards, the aces are usually without a number, and are also distinguished from the others in that they may be considered as high or low. As to how
they may have thought of corresponding these 36 cards to the decans
we are all familiar with the elemental attributions; however another
way may have been directional. Remembering that a square format
horoscope was more commonly used than the round one we are more
familiar with these days, I am picturing the 36 cards in a square
[with the aces perhaps denoting the four cardinal points ascendant,
mc, descendant and nadir]. Along each side would be one suit 2-10.
The manner in which we choose to attribute the suits to the
directions is debatable, but for example lets say wands is easterly,
therefore they are laid down the eastern [left side] of the square
and correspond to the 9 decans Pisces to Taurus; and so on with the
rest.

As for the court cards:

Draw a square. Mark four points, marking the middle of each line of
the square. Using these as marking the corners draw another square
inside the other. Draw two diagonal lines, corner to corner of the
outer square. Use the points where the diagonals cross the midpoints
of the second square as the corners of another inner square. You now
have a square shape with sixteen internal triangular segments. This
is the basis for the square format horoscope, in which the four
central triangular segments are usually blanked out to form an inner
square to contain four items of information, name, date, time and
place of birth.

The central point event, the birth or child, infers the Mother;
therefore I am imagining the four Queens in the central triangular
segments; kings in cardinal segments, knights in fixed and pages in
mutable. As I said Wands east [the Ace of Wands with its trunk like
wand resting on the ground and sprouting suggestive of spring, aries,
cardinal east], swords west [autumn, the dying sun [scythe, bladed
weapon] the cutting of the harvest]; Cups North Cancer; Pentacles
South Capricorn.

So in order 2-10 [2, 3and 4 mutable signs, 5, 6 and 7 cardinal signs, 8, 9 and 10 kerubic signs]:
Easterly - Batons - Pisces, Aries and Taurus
Southerly - Deniers - Sagittarius, Capricorn and Aquarius
Westerly - Swords - Virgo, Libra and Scorpio
Northerly - Cups - Gemini, Cancer and Leo.

Kwaw
 

kwaw

firemaiden said:
Wow, this (and kwaw's whole post) was fascinating. Was this string of negative meanings those proferred by Waite and Mathers?

Waites, Mathers and Etteillas DMs for this card are different to mine but are in the main negative and include division, rupture, separation, estrangement, part, cut, loss, quarrel, the flight of a lover, aversion, disgust, horror.

How something so positive as the"holy spirit within the virgin womb" gets to meaning rape and sexual abuse... One would think it would represent fertilisation of the mind... a filling of the inner well with inspiration, inner richness...

I would agree these to be a possible interpretation of the more positive aspects of the card. As to rape or sexual abuse lets look at it a different way; the vesica pisces appears on all the swords 2-10, and the 'penetrating' sword on the odd numbered cards 3,5,7 and 9, and the question arises what diffentiates the common symbolism - how do we read different meanings from the same sexual imagery of the shared symbolism? One way may be to consider the increase in numbers as stages of sexual maturity; another, considering that a function of the sword is to draw blood, is to combine the symbolism of blood and the vesica pisces and divide the 9 cards 2-10 into three triplicities and by analogy equate them with the three stages associated with menstruation, virgin maid, bride/mother? and crone. The sexual penetration of the virgin maid, before she has become a bride, would certainly have been considered 'immoral' and 'dishonourable' and a reason for the no longer virgin maid to be sent off to a nunnery. In the astrological model I have posted you will see that in this experimental model the next odd number, the 5 of swords corresponds to the seventh house [house of marriage] and the first decan of Libra ruled by the Moon [in cabala a symbol of the bride], thus the sexual imagery here I would relate to the conjugation of bride and bridegroom, and thus a wholly different set of associations. Also, but in order not to offend any Christians amongst us moving away from the image of Mary and the Dove to Leda and the Swan, in which Leda is raped by Zeus [a sky, air god].

In my Camoin version of the Three of Swords there is no deflowered flower, but there are two cut leafy twigs, crossed behind the central (red) sword, and they appear to be bleeding where they were cut.

Maybe I am beginning to see to much sex into this card, but the V shape of the cut twigs suggest to me the vulva.

Two bleeding twigs also show up in the Ace. Much more suggestive of "deflowering", I should think, would be this ace, with it's sword penetrating a crown, and unleashing its rain. (I have a suspicion we'll be doing the Ace of Swords next)

I interpret the ace along the lines of the symbolism of circumcision, but will leave it for now until the appropriate thread.

Kwaw
 

Fulgour

Alciato's Book of Emblems

This has a 3 d'Épées kind of look and feel to me... yes/no?

Emblem 78: Those immune to Cupid's arrow:

http://www.mun.ca/alciato/images/l078.gif

First appeared in the unauthorized edition of 1531.

Lest cruel love conquer you, or any woman ravage your mind with
her magic arts, let the bird of Bacchus, the motacilla, be made ready
to attend you. This quadriradial bird you should place in a circular orb,
so that it forms a cross with its beak and its tail and two wings.

This shall be an amulet for all enchantment. With this sign of Venus,
it is said, Pegasean Jason could be unharmed by Phasian treacheries.
 

Fulgour

3 d'Épées

While the design of the card may be variously interpreted,
the Marseille Swords offer an interesting study when lined
up Ace through 10: a rolling field of circles, with alternating
floral and sword elements in the center of each card. There
are 48 half circles (24 full), 6 swords, and 4 florals (6x4=24).
But counting the Ace we see 7 Épées: an indivisible number.

Fulgour
 

maks

Thank you, Terri, for your post on uprights and reversals regarding, in part, the Hadar deck (the one I use). I would read this card as a thought being born out of--because of the contemplation of two. An "Ah Ha" moment--a piercing of the intellect. This card calls for us to actively do nothing. It directs us to allow, to sleep on it, to not try to figure it out. The thought will come on its own accord. The thought will not call for action. The thought will be what it is, "the truth."
 

Rosanne

Lord create in me a clean Heart! From the marriage of Heaven and Earth comes the third. So it is Swords. The action of Intellect. So I see that divided into three ways what causes the action- the Subject, then what the Subject does- the Verb and its effect- the Object. I was told at school you could sin three ways - in thought, word and deed; and 'thought' was the parent of the other two. By the way I don't think one can fall on their Sword if the Hilt is upwards and the point down. Bad luck is said to come in threes. The Japenese see three as treasures- the Mirror, the Sword and the Jewel. Truth, courage and compassion and these three things I consider when how might the three of Swords be read. ~Rosanne