5 Pentacles (split from 5 of pentacles as hidden desires)

[Ruby Jewel]

I don't buy into many of the "pre-packaged" story lines in decks with illustrated minor cards, so I'm open-minded about different ways to view the 5 of Pentacles. Usually I follow elemental, astrological and numerical correspondences. In this case, Five causes disruption in mundane routine, "rocking the foundation," so to speak, like an earthquake) while nimble, footloose Mercury in plodding, conformist Taurus suffers mental anguish due to being completely "out of its element:" the dilemma won't be resolved entirely by "mind-over-matter" finesse; some "heavy lifting" is implied. Crowley said that this card (titled "Worry") has the effect of intense strain coupled with long-continued inaction, a "Damned if you do, and damned if you don't" kind of situation. The "hidden desire" may simply be to make all of this profound anxiety go away as quickly and painlessly as possible.

I agree, the illustrated pips have bred all kinds of speculative meanings for these cards. As a matter of fact there seems to be no limit. Of course when one thinks of worry in connection with Pentacles, that becomes pretty specific. If you have known real poverty, then you know the "trap"....there seems to be no way out because poverty breeds poverty...and you worry, but you are damned no matter which way you turn. Just look at the homeless with no phone, no shower, no clothes, no car....no place to sleep....how would you ever wake up in the morning and go to a job or for that matter find someone who would hire you? I can see this card as a card of financial desperation and depression, with no way out....the only hope being the church where at least one's spirit might find reprieve. On a more typical (hopefully) level, the idea of "worry" is equally appropriate. The word makes a good 'handle' for the card. Like the entire tarot, there are as many layers of meaning as there are layers of worry. But at least "worry" makes a good starting point to address the issue in matters of "layers" of depth. The problem seems to be created when the definitions begin expanding laterally......like concentric ripples in a pool of water to encompass any kind of worry or problem one happens to be experiencing at the moment. Five of Pentacles is about finances. Cups cover matters of the heart.

 

[Puffette]

I am not a believer in "pride". It is actually at the root of most psychological problems and often flies in the face of "truth." If a person is ill, that is a different story. It has nothing to do with pride or truth. Personally, I am still trying to figure out how this card represents either "illness" or "hidden desire" except by a big stretch of the imagination. If what you are saying is the person needs financial help, I totally see that. If I were considering the card in a reading the first issue I would approach would be that of financial problems, not sexual or psychological.

Oh trust me it has and this card is all about that. Seriously,pride is one of the most blatant traits of this card and had it confirmed in previous readings for my sitters and clients.
I've met ill people that were so strong and firm that they didnt needed the family's or friends's mercy that they rather suffer in silence then expressing their feelings or needs towards them.

This card is not only about money but about what fills your life and this could be health and love too deppending on everyone's choice,even a simple advice/support from someone. This is about values and what is most important for one in life. Sexual too,because the lack of affection and intimacy of someone that hasnt had too much luck to find a partner can make the sitter think that he/she is an outcast. It is about feeling normal and wanting what others have or are!

Psychological too because it shows depression, they have no one with whom to share their feelings and thoughts,no support,no one that could totally understand their true needs.

5 of pentacles represents hopelessnes,abbandonment,solitude and lack of trust in God. If one loses that one element that fills their life then the world crumbles in pieces while on the other side of the baricade the others are living their life and having their cups filled(like in the background picture where it shows the church-the warmth,the hope,peace of mind and soul).

 

[Ruby Jewel]

Oh trust me it has and this card is all about that. Seriously,pride is one of the most blatant traits of this card and had it confirmed in previous readings for my sitters and clients.
I've met ill people that were so strong and firm that they didnt needed the family's or friends's mercy that they rather suffer in silence then expressing their feelings or needs towards them.

This card is not only about money but about what fills your life and this could be health and love too deppending on everyone's choice,even a simple advice/support from someone. This is about values and what is most important for one in life. Sexual too,because the lack of affection and intimacy of someone that hasnt had too much luck to find a partner can make the sitter think that he/she is an outcast. It is about feeling normal and wanting what others have or are!

Psychological too because it shows depression, they have no one with whom to share their feelings and thoughts,no support,no one that could totally understand their true needs.

5 of pentacles represents hopelessnes,abbandonment,solitude and lack of trust in God. If one loses that one element that fills their life then the world crumbles in pieces while on the other side of the baricade the others are living their life and having their cups filled(like in the background picture where it shows the church-the warmth,the hope,peace of mind and soul).

I must admit, Puffette, I am at a loss for words here. However, I believe I settled this issue, at least to my own satisfaction, with my above response to Barleywine.

 

[Puffette]

I must admit, Puffette, I am at a loss for words here. However, I believe I settled this issue, at least to my own satisfaction, with my above response to Barleywine.

I trully respect everyone's oppinion and i understand the way u clasify the cards. My present status of my life is 5 of pentacles. I have money,a moto,i have financial means to sustain my life, i dont go to church to ask money and nor i need money to ask from someone at the moment but what misses from my life at the moment is love. Yesterday i spent 50 euro for silly stuff at a shop because i wanted to spoil myself a bit.This is an example that money is not the element missing in here.
I lost my love and this has put me in such a situation in which i do not only feel hopeless but also lost and disapointed. Love is precious for me and maybe it has the same value as for those people that adore or need money to sustain their life.
Pentacles is not all about money and financial situations. I get to eat like a cow everyday but the food in my mouth has no taste because im broken inside. 5 of pentacle is the card that keeps repeating for myself for more then a month,today and for the near future because i know its a long process of recovery. I am like those beggers in the picture except i lack the happiness not the money.
My interest is not to persuade u to believe in my words because that would be my last intention but cards dont have a set in stone meaning. I've known poverty too and i know it relates to this card because as a general meaning this is the initial explanation-poverty and lack of money,losing a job,losing a house,begging in the street and the entire spectrum of loss. I've experienced this card both ways and i know how it feels. I've lost a home and i know how painful it is.
Cups is about emotions and feelings but pentacles too and they are even stronger comparing to cups if u ask me because it shows the unlimited love and selfishness that one can have/feel for her/his partner. Its devotion,respect and solidarity,things that last more then a cup that can be shaken by mistake and get the water spilled.
I dont speak only from what i experienced but also from what i've seen in the readings i did for my clients and sitters.
There's no need that you reply to this comment. Just read it.

 

[Barleywine]

I agree, the illustrated pips have bred all kinds of speculative meanings for these cards. As a matter of fact there seems to be no limit. Of course when one thinks of worry in connection with Pentacles, that becomes pretty specific. If you have known real poverty, then you know the "trap"....there seems to be no way out because poverty breeds poverty...and you worry, but you are damned no matter which way you turn. Just look at the homeless with no phone, no shower, no clothes, no car....no place to sleep....how would you ever wake up in the morning and go to a job or for that matter find someone who would hire you? I can see this card as a card of financial desperation and depression, with no way out....the only hope being the church where at least one's spirit might find reprieve. On a more typical (hopefully) level, the idea of "worry" is equally appropriate. The word makes a good 'handle' for the card. Like the entire tarot, there are as many layers of meaning as there are layers of worry. But at least "worry" makes a good starting point to address the issue in matters of "layers" of depth. The problem seems to be created when the definitions begin expanding laterally......like concentric ripples in a pool of water to encompass any kind of worry or problem one happens to be experiencing at the moment. Five of Pentacles is about finances. Cups cover matters of the heart.

I respectfully suggest that it's not the heart we're talking about, it's lower down on the anatomy. Earth relates to the world of sensation in addition to that of practical matters, and this appears to have been predominantly a relationship of sensual gratification, so it stands to reason that the "break-up" landscape would be littered with psycho-sexual landmines. "Desire" is first and foremost the territory of Mars, which has a qabalistic connection to the number 5, so "hidden desires" seem more like the longings of an unsatisfied appetite than those of an emotionally-fraught sensibility; "lingering feelings" would be more in line with the 5 of Cups, but the question wasn't asked that way, and there didn't seem to be any obvious "financial dependency" elements to the situation either. And about those "ripples," the Golden Dawn correspondences (which Waite was privy to but didn't fully embrace in his deck) promote lateral thinking in all kinds of imaginative ways, as Crowley more than amply demonstrated. Literal keywords are only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Ruby Jewel]

I respectfully suggest that it's not the heart we're talking about, it's lower down on the anatomy. Earth relates to the world of sensation in addition to that of practical matters, and this appears to have been predominantly a relationship of sensual gratification, so it stands to reason that the "break-up" landscape would be littered with psycho-sexual landmines. "Desire" is first and foremost the territory of Mars, which has a qabalistic connection to the number 5, so "hidden desires" seem more like the longings of an unsatisfied appetite than those of an emotionally-fraught sensibility; "lingering feelings" would be more in line with the 5 of Cups, but the question wasn't asked that way, and there didn't seem to be any obvious "financial dependency" elements to the situation either. And about those "ripples," the Golden Dawn correspondences (which Waite was privy to but didn't fully embrace in his deck) promote lateral thinking in all kinds of imaginative ways, as Crowley more than amply demonstrated. Literal keywords are only the tip of the iceberg.

I have no doubt, Barleywine, that you are much wiser than I in determining where on the anatomy this issue resides (laugh)....thanks for the belly laugh....although I am a fiery Aries ruled by Mars in wise Aquarius with earthy lusty Venus in Taurus (haha...don't mind bragging do I)....so I know a little about the landscape myself. Still, I confess I know very little about how it feels to be homosexual. I suppose there is more than one way of approaching the tarot, but I find the concept of "simplicity" to be appropriate in all areas of life.....and so I apply it to the tarot as well as to my paintings...refusing to get sucked into intellectual complexities....which I admit leave me scratching my head. I guess what I'm saying here is we probably think differently regarding making imaginative extensive connections ad infinitum...which seems to be the case with Crowley. I do have a couple of his "greenies", but have never been a fan of them.

 

[Barleywine]

I have no doubt, Barleywine, that you are much wiser than I in determining where on the anatomy this issue resides (laugh)....thanks for the belly laugh....although I am a fiery Aries ruled by Mars in wise Aquarius with earthy lusty Venus in Taurus (haha...don't mind bragging do I)....so I know a little about the landscape myself. Still, I confess I know very little about how it feels to be homosexual. I suppose there is more than one way of approaching the tarot, but I find the concept of "simplicity" to be appropriate in all areas of life.....and so I apply it to the tarot as well as to my paintings...refusing to get sucked into intellectual complexities....which I admit leave me scratching my head. I guess what I'm saying here is we probably think differently regarding making imaginative extensive connections ad infinitum...which seems to be the case with Crowley. I do have a couple of his "greenies", but have never been a fan of them.

I don't think we're in disagreement (or at least not much). I always start with simple as well (sometimes it hits you right between the eyes), but if that doesn't give me confidence in the interprtation, I dig deeper into my - what did Gareth Knight call it? "Treasure-house of images?" - for more insight. I do that instead of using clarifiers, shadow cards, base cards, quint cards (seemingly ad infinitum there too). It's just a different angle of attack that can expand the horizons of the reading in much the same way; the advantage I see is that it's integral to the cards already laid out, not an add-on technique.

 

[Ruby Jewel]

I don't think we're in disagreement (or at least not much). I always start with simple as well (sometimes it hits you right between the eyes), but if that doesn't give me confidence in the interprtation, I dig deeper into my - what did Gareth Knight call it? "Treasure-house of images?" - for more insight. I do that instead of using clarifiers, shadow cards, base cards, quint cards (seemingly ad infinitum there too). It's just a different angle of attack that can expand the horizons of the reading in much the same way; the advantage I see is that it's integral to the cards already laid out, not an add-on technique.

I don't think we are necessarily in disagreement, but I feel we think differently. It probably won't surprise you when I say very few people think like me (laugh). I am a quasi-Buddhist, and there is a little post I have push-pinned to my studio wall: "my storehouse of treasures burned down, I can see the Moon". I, too, do not have faith in clarifiers...they seem like "grabbing at straws"; I don't understand shadow cards, but I understand the shadow period of a retrograde planet when it goes direct. I have never even heard of base cards and quint cards! My life, like my mind, is stark and simple, and that is the way I read the tarot, and paint my paintings. Of course it takes all kinds of people to make a world I have been told....how exciting can that be. Still, for me the suit of Pentacles speaks of finances without much further ado. If a Cup conjuncts it, I might see it as "coloring" the issue to some degree, but it won't change my initial perspective regarding the Pentacle card. Thanks for the interaction....even though we will probably still see this differently....we can always enjoy the diversity of knowing there is more than one way to approach knowledge.

 

[Ruby Jewel]

I respectfully suggest that it's not the heart we're talking about, it's lower down on the anatomy. Earth relates to the world of sensation in addition to that of practical matters, and this appears to have been predominantly a relationship of sensual gratification, so it stands to reason that the "break-up" landscape would be littered with psycho-sexual landmines. "Desire" is first and foremost the territory of Mars, which has a qabalistic connection to the number 5, so "hidden desires" seem more like the longings of an unsatisfied appetite than those of an emotionally-fraught sensibility; "lingering feelings" would be more in line with the 5 of Cups, but the question wasn't asked that way, and there didn't seem to be any obvious "financial dependency" elements to the situation either. And about those "ripples," the Golden Dawn correspondences (which Waite was privy to but didn't fully embrace in his deck) promote lateral thinking in all kinds of imaginative ways, as Crowley more than amply demonstrated. Literal keywords are only the tip of the iceberg.

Upon a second perusal of this, and rethinking it somewhat, I can understand what you are saying regarding "sensation" as opposed to "feeling/emotion" regarding earth when it comes to the astrological earth sign of Taurus. I know that Taurus, in particular, is very sensitive to touch, and the other senses....in other words, sensation. Being ruled by Venus, they are also very much about "love" and the emotions that go with that. However, this theory of sensuality could be applied neither to Virgo, under Mercury rulership, nor Capricorn under Saturn, as these are two very cold planets.....Mercury being mental, and Saturn being basically "frozen." So, that is why I cannot make that connection of sensation to Pentacles that you mention. Practical, yes, but not the sensual.