5 Swords and its different meanings

[BrightEye]

I have read on a particular topic a couple of times, each time with a slightly different but related question. Each time I drew the Tower and the 5 Swords (+one or two other cards). Once I used the Thoth, the other time the 1JJ Swiss. I have had the same experience with the Magician, again from different decks.

We always say it's important to mention which deck was used in readings. But I wonder whether cards can indeed have universal meaning rather than one specific to the image. I take it the Thoth and the 1JJ Swiss 5 Swords are trying to tell me the same thing, even though I'm 'trained' to think 'defeat' is not one of the meanings automatically applied to the Marseille pip.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[vger]

Wow, it's very interesting you were wondering this, because I've been wondering about the very same thing about the very same card!

Recently, I've had different decks throwing this card at me in almost all my readings. I've gotten it with the Thoth, Sephiroth, and Visconti.

I think the cards can very well mean similar things across different decks, but in different decks the same card is looked at from slightly different perspectives. Okay, in some decks the meanings have been totally altered... but the numerological meanings and the suit stay the same! (Okay, let's forget for a moment about the decks that assign fire to the suit of Swords, just to make things a bit more simple... but then again, working with Marseilles like decks you could totally ignore any elements assigned to the suits and just look at the qualities of the sword itself. Uh. I'm rambling.)

When reading with Marseilles style unillustrated pips, what do you see in the 5 of Swords? For example, I see five as a number that deals with forceful change, as individual thoughts arising from or destroying established structures (four). In the suit of Swords, this could very well mean communication that is very sharp, shattering and destructive in nature, perhaps quarrel and strife - and this is where "defeat" could enter the picture.

So I do think it's totally possible for a card to mean similar things in different decks. It depends on the deck, of course, as well as your intuitive interpretations. But when different decks gang up on you and throw the same card at you, no matter which deck, I do think they're all trying to tell you the same thing.

 

[Moonbow]

http://www.tarotforum.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=363997

In a Marseilles deck this is likely to have a completely different meaning as an individual card than it would in a spread. As many of the pips look similar to each other in a Marseilles deck its more important to see how they interact with the cards around them and with the question at hand. Without an artist's interpretation of what the card means (ie a man making off with some swords after a disagreement as in the WCS deck) then it has potential to change its meaning, the reader can be far more expressive. On its own I would look at the implement, the number, and the image in front of me. In a spread I would look at this card as I would a word within a sentence, that is, how does it make sense together with the others around it.

 

[Sophie]

Using the spheres of the Tree of Life as a guide has helped me a lot in understanding the numbered cards, including in the Marseille and similar decks.

5 is Gevurah, who is Severity. A female energy, the energy of destruction that allows for regeneration and renewal: she comes as a pair - for energy is polar and balanced - with 4, Mercy, a protective energy. I would say that with the Tower, that 5 of Swords fits pretty well - the Tower shows the destruction itself and the 5 of Swords, the cutting effect of this destruction upon the individual - who endures it as an experience of severity, a reminder that all in life is balance, and that you can't grow without a few sword slashes.