9 of Pentacles, 9 of Swords, and the other 9s.

[Amanda]

I was thinking about this card and how it's sometimes talked about that there is a little niggling feel for the woman in this card, like something is missing. But then, the woman is surrounded by her pentacles, tending to her garden and bird, etc. And it struck me, that this woman could be in denial. And it made so much more sense, considering it's negative counterpart (the 9 of Swords) way over-does the "problem" and makes it bigger than it is.

So, if the 9 of Pentacles is denial, and 9 of Swords is paranoia, I'm wondering (along this line of thinking) what is "missing" from the 9 of Cups and 9 of Wands and what could they represent along with denial (9oP) and paranoia (9oS)?

 

[cricket]

9 of Wands: "Well NOW what?" All that hard work and fighting for all those wands, and now what are you supposed to do with them?? Sort of a sense of disillusionment - all that work and all you've got are some lousy sticks.

9 of Cups: The same thing, but with an opposite connotation. "Look what I've got. All these golden cups, and I didn't have to do a thing to get them! I'm just entitled to having them, by virtue of being me."

 

[Amanda]

9 of Wands: "Well NOW what?" All that hard work and fighting for all those wands, and now what are you supposed to do with them?? Sort of a sense of disillusionment - all that work and all you've got are some lousy sticks.

9 of Cups: The same thing, but with an opposite connotation. "Look what I've got. All these golden cups, and I didn't have to do a thing to get them! I'm just entitled to having them, by virtue of being me."

LOL - That makes sense. Thanks cricket.

 

[Cosmos]

I don't see her in denial, I think she seems to be doing pretty good actually, she is an independent and refined woman who is now enjoying her sucess through all the effort shes put into on the previously card, 8 of Pentacles. She doesnt look lonely although she is alone but it seems to me that she likes it better that way. It's a nice card, at least thats how I see it..

Now onto 9 of Cups, it strikes to me as the ultimate satisfaction card, it's not a bad card at all, but i do sense a little selfish energy like wanting to satisfy your needs no matter what. It's not so much thinking about the other person but yourself and just having it your way. The guy in the card seems to be a show off right lol it can be a playful energy-card as well, I enjoy it.

9 of Wands is all about persistence, it's about not giving up and keep insisting and believing in what you want and how you will do anything to get there even though you are so damn tired and a little bruised you still need to finish whatever you started. You just keep going...

 

[Cosmos]

I don't see her in denial, I think she seems to be doing pretty good actually, she is an independent and refined woman who is now enjoying her sucess through all the effort shes put into on the previously card, 8 of Pentacles. She doesnt look lonely although she is alone but it seems to me that she likes it better that way. It's a nice card, at least thats how I see it..

Now onto 9 of Cups, it strikes to me as the ultimate satisfaction card, it's not a bad card at all, but i do sense a little selfish energy like wanting to satisfy your needs no matter what. It's not so much thinking about the other person but yourself and just having it your way. The guy in the card seems to be a show off right lol it can be a playful energy-card as well, I enjoy it.

9 of Wands is all about persistence, it's about not giving up and keep insisting and believing in what you want and how you will do anything to get there even though you are so damn tired and a little bruised you still need to finish whatever you started. You just keep going...

 

[Thirteen]

Is self-satisfaction really a bad thing to feel?

Now onto 9 of Cups, it strikes to me as the ultimate satisfaction card, it's not a bad card at all, but i do sense a little selfish energy like wanting to satisfy your needs no matter what.

But couldn't that be said of all the 9's? All the 9 cards are about "Me"--not about others. 9/Pents is--in agreement with you, the woman using her money to satisfy herself and live life as she wants to live it. If she is alone, it's because she wants it that way. She isn't using that money to make others happy, she's making herself happy--and I see no denial in that.

9/Wands can often be seen as someone who won't give up control. He's guarding all those wands because he doesn't trust anyone else to guard them; others may have offered, but even though he's tired and wounded, he feels he's the only one that can do it. 9/Swords could be seen as something obsessed and overwhelmed by their troubles--it could possibly be worry over someone else, but, in a way, that's awful close to 9/wands--worrying about the troubles of others as though you were obligated to take them on, as if you can't let others worry for themselves about their own troubles. And doesn't this all just go along with the Hermit, Mr. 9 himself, who leaves the world in order to get what he wants? Not just solitude, but a chance to investigate and explore as he wants to investigate and explore, not as others would have him do it.

As I said in the 9/Cups thread, we pick on the 9/Cups as being "selfish" but I'm not sure that we should. 9/Pents and 9/Cups show the people alone. These two aren't seen with others, like the 5/Swords, gaining pleasure by showing off what they've got that others don't, making others feel inferior while they feel superior. The solitude of the people in these two cards suggest simple self-satisfaction, like looking at yourself in a mirror after having worked out at the gym for weeks and saying, "Hey, I look good!" And don't we urge people to feel that way? Don't we say, "Take pride in your accomplishments, don't denigrate what you've done"? Don't we say, "Be happy with yourself, with your body image, with your life!"?

Here are two people, 9/Pents and 9/Cups, who are perfectly happy with what they have. How bad is this advice really? We have to see the difference between this and selfishness. Selfishness is: "You can't have it, it's mine!" All we're seeing in these cards is, "Isn't what I've got wonderful? I'm so happy." Is that really a bad thing to feel?

 

[Cosmos]

But couldn't that be said of all the 9's? All the 9 cards are about "Me"--not about others. 9/Pents is--in agreement with you, the woman using her money to satisfy herself and live life as she wants to live it. If she is alone, it's because she wants it that way. She isn't using that money to make others happy, she's making herself happy--and I see no denial in that.

9/Wands can often be seen as someone who won't give up control. He's guarding all those wands because he doesn't trust anyone else to guard them; others may have offered, but even though he's tired and wounded, he feels he's the only one that can do it. 9/Swords could be seen as something obsessed and overwhelmed by their troubles--it could possibly be worry over someone else, but, in a way, that's awful close to 9/wands--worrying about the troubles of others as though you were obligated to take them on, as if you can't let others worry for themselves about their own troubles. And doesn't this all just go along with the Hermit, Mr. 9 himself, who leaves the world in order to get what he wants? Not just solitude, but a chance to investigate and explore as he wants to investigate and explore, not as others would have him do it.

As I said in the 9/Cups thread, we pick on the 9/Cups as being "selfish" but I'm not sure that we should. 9/Pents and 9/Cups show the people alone. These two aren't seen with others, like the 5/Swords, gaining pleasure by showing off what they've got that others don't, making others feel inferior while they feel superior. The solitude of the people in these two cards suggest simple self-satisfaction, like looking at yourself in a mirror after having worked out at the gym for weeks and saying, "Hey, I look good!" And don't we urge people to feel that way? Don't we say, "Take pride in your accomplishments, don't denigrate what you've done"? Don't we say, "Be happy with yourself, with your body image, with your life!"?

Here are two people, 9/Pents and 9/Cups, who are perfectly happy with what they have. How bad is this advice really? We have to see the difference between this and selfishness. Selfishness is: "You can't have it, it's mine!" All we're seeing in these cards is, "Isn't what I've got wonderful? I'm so happy." Is that really a bad thing to feel?

You are absolutely right, I totally agree with you!
I didn't mean in a bad way when I said I sense a little selfishness on 9 of Cups. All 9's are about you not others, but being a water card I think it has a lot to do with pleasure hence pleasing yourself. There is nothing wrong with that, the person is more inclined to satisfying their own desires and that's fine by me.

The Hermit is about having some alone time but it also represents maturity, enlightenment so in a way they are all connected.

 

[Suzanne A]

This is a very interesting discussion. Just the other day I was thinking about the 9's in the RWS, and how they all show people alone. Especially with the Cups and Pentacles, I see the 9 as the culmination of the suit as it refers to an individual. The man in the 9 of Cups has all he needs emotionally; the woman in the 9 of Pentacles has all she needs materially. Depending on the context, this could be a positive or a negative. Maybe the woman likes being on her own with her stuff, but maybe she's thinking "Here I am in my beautiful garden, but I have no one to share it with." Maybe she's selfish, maybe she's just self-sufficient. All depends on the context. It's a big contrast with the 10's of Cups and Pentacles, which both show a family or community group. A different kind of culmination, the person as part of a group.

I'm not so sure how the Swords and Wands fit in. There aren't any other people shown in the 10's, although the Wands guy is struggling toward some buildings, and the Swords guy didn't stick those swords in his back by himself. I think the analysis holds, to take the 9's as the individual dealing with the energies of the suit, and to have the 10's reflect the person in society somehow--but it's not as obvious to me as with the Cups and Pents. I also have a hard time finding positive meanings in the 10s of Swords and Wands and the 9 of Swords, apart from maybe "There's nowhere to go but up."

 

[Thirteen]

YAll 9's are about you not others, but being a water card I think it has a lot to do with pleasure hence pleasing yourself.

Nice point. And I don't mean to imply that the 9/Cups or 9/Pents can't have a negative side. After all, pleasing yourself, indulging, can go overboard. When I see a negative for that 9/Pents, I see a woman who is collecting too many trinkets or maybe has too many pets. The pleasure of decorating the house just as she wants it become the be-all and end-all.

Likewise, with the 9/Cups where our man could easy go overboard in pleasuring himself. Meaning he's going to sample all those drinks and while he'll certainly enjoy it, he'll end up drunk.

There are plenty of negatives in these cards.

 

[Amanda]

Suzanne, that's kind of where I was going with this, you and cricket seemed to have picked up on it the most-

The 9s (in my opinion) show something coming to a close but not necessarily finished or transitioning. I was trying to look at these cards and figure out what that little missing thing was for each, considering that it would only take an Ace of each suit to make 10- your example of the lady in her garden loving it but wishing she could share it with someone was a great example. She has what she needs/wants, but is perhaps missing some other opportunity (Ace of Pentacles) to share it, and the 9 of Swords is missing some main/logical point (Ace of Swords) in their mind. What I'm talking about, is a more "negative" aspect to these cards, where things have built up so far, and a main (Aces) piece was ignored that would have kept someone on "track"... before fate kicks in (10s) and teaches them a lesson and/or puts them back where they are "supposed" to be.

I'm thinking the 9 of Cups is missing the Ace of Cups- doing everything he wants and enjoys, but not what he truly loves (deep down).

And the 9 of Wands, that would be like living for others and not oneself (Ace of Wands) or something like that... but I couldn't think of good single words to describe these cards that go along with the denial and paranoia I was sensing from the Pentacles and Swords.

I realize these aren't the full and true meanings of the cards, but this was the aspect I was hoping to focus on- the part that is "missing" from each.