Analysing a card a day - Five of Swords

[Mind]

Hi There

I hope this is the correct forum for posting this, as I seem to be getting a little confused... (if not please advise), but I'll go ahead here for now.

Yesterday I had a really interesting thread about the 3 of swords, which I took from the Universal Waite deck. I really didn't like it and through the contribution and wisdom of the other forum members, now have a different outlook on the card... still a little grim but a necessary phase rather than just heartache and misery.

It made me think that it would be nice to analyse a card a day. This may have been done before but I think it would be really beneficial just to talk about the card, how we all feel about it and what it has or does represent in members' readings. It really helps newbies like me increase their depth of knowledge.

Today I thought we could discuss the 5 of Swords... sorry it's another sword card, but I'm picking the top one's I have a problem even looking at without feeling annoyed!

I had it in a reading yesterday and wondered if it literally meant a 'nasty person' who is hell bent on doing me harm. Is that likely, or are there more subtle meanings to the card?

I am looking at the Universal Waite deck, although comments on other decks are definitely useful to give a broader meaning.

I think the guy in the foreground looks really smug, even pleased with himself that he has caused hurt and perhaps embarrassment to the other people in the background. Does it perhaps represent feelings of inadequacy?

I can't find any redeeming features in this card... but maybe there's not meant to be.

 

[nisaba]

<smile> I don't have a scanner so I can't post pics of the decks I might refer to, so I'm going to move away from illustrated pips towards unillustrated pips. In a few decks with unillustrated pips (the Vetrate, the Tarot of hte Dead etc) I go for RWS-like meanings, but I'm going to cruise on by those, to things liek the Golden Dawn decks including the Thoth, backwards through time to the Marseilles and even further into antiquity with the Visconti family of decks.

All of these decks merely show the suit symbols and numbers, with a greater or lesser amount of undescriptive decoration around them to break up the surfaces. With these cards you could, as Bernice has been talking about, correlate the four elements or suits with the "four humours" associated with early theories of medicine and personality, or you could go the four elements, Earth, Water, Air and Fire. I'm more accustomed to this, so this is what I will stick with.

Swords equates to the element of Air. Air is about the intellect, about the power of thought, so every card will reflect this in some way. Now, many numerologists from a couple of different styles think that the number five is about change. So we derive a meaning of this card from both "change" or instability, and "thought" or mind.

This leads me to read these decks as though there is a deep shift happening in the way people view tehir situations, their jobs, their families, their relationships - whatever is being read about. Now, if the previous situation has been stable, even happy, then changes in your thinking or the thinking of the people around you is potentially threatening - it may take away that happiness. So, when the past has been relatively happy, change is threatening, and this feeling of threat is why, I feel, Waite and other more recent deck-designers have chosen to illustrate this card as threatening, menacing, sad or angry.

However, consider this for a moment.

Assume you are having a reading done about your work. you are in a dreadful job. For a long time you have been underpaid, overworked, kept in the dark, and bullied by your superiors. you have had no job security and no reward for your time and effort. All of this has been because of people's negative attitudes towards work, the industry or you personally.

Then a card promising changes in the way people think in this situation (the Five Swords) comes along. This may not be so negative. Perhaps some change in the way the boss thinks will affect the conditions at work, or workmates may think differently about exclusion and bullying. The ideas and innovations that the subject may have thought of to improve work practive that may have been ignored before, might now be regognised as potentially profitable or efficient, and may be adopted. The subject of hte reading finds that due to changes in the way others (and they) think about the job, working conditions have improved, motivation has improved, and things are no longer so bad.

Does that sound like a bad card? None of the fives are, I think. They are all cards of instability, where, if the situation is good it can be degraded, but if it is poor, it can be improved. All they promise, as fives, is change; and the Five Swords is about changes in thought-patterns, attitudes, communications, even intellectual growth and development. Whether those changes are positive or negative, depends largely on the nature of the previous situation.

 

[Mind]

Wow, is your name Rachel Pollack?! Thanks so much for your words.

Assume you are having a reading done about your work. you are in a dreadful job. For a long time you have been underpaid, overworked, kept in the dark, and bullied by your superiors. you have had no job security and no reward for your time and effort. All of this has been because of people's negative attitudes towards work, the industry or you personally.

Then a card promising changes in the way people think in this situation (the Five Swords) comes along. This may not be so negative. Perhaps some change in the way the boss thinks will affect the conditions at work, or workmates may think differently about exclusion and bullying. The ideas and innovations that the subject may have thought of to improve work practive that may have been ignored before, might now be regognised as potentially profitable or efficient, and may be adopted. The subject of hte reading finds that due to changes in the way others (and they) think about the job, working conditions have improved, motivation has improved, and things are no longer so bad.

Re the above are you saying that if the person can confirm that they are/have already experienced being treated badly, they can expect change for the better?

Conversely, if you are reading for someone and this pops up when all is well, should they then expect a lot of this negative communication/thoughts around them?

I ask as yesterday my mini-reading for myself was made up of 3 cards. I simply asked what I should do to improve as a reader.

Card 1 - 2 of Pentacles, which I understood to mean the ups and downs of getting started and financial flow (or lack of of!)

Card 2 - 5 of Swords .... this threw me here, but having read your comments, it could be related to other's thoughts of my 'new career'!

Card 3 - 3 of Pentacles - much better! My thoughts were of learning mastery, bringing together elements, help from other experts (like you!) and bringing it out to the people... so to speak

This thread isn't primarily about this reading but just to put my question into context.

Again, I'm happy to have a more positive take to consider with this Sword card. It really helps me settle down with this deck.

By the way, how do you know so much about all these different decks... it's mind blowing!

 

[nisaba]

Wow, is your name Rachel Pollack?! Thanks so much for your words.

<promptly> that has gone *straight* into the "reviews" section of my personal profile! Thanks for that!

Re the above are you saying that if the person can confirm that they are/have already experienced being treated badly, they can expect change for the better?

Well, they can certainly expect change. My thesis is that if things are poor, tehn change is not as much to be feared than if things are wonderful. If things are wonderful you want them to stay that way, right? And if things are bad, you want them to change?

Again, I'm happy to have a more positive take to consider with this Sword card. It really helps me settle down with this deck.

Glad I could help. If you're using an illustrated deck, though, go with the illustration and how it makes you feel at the time. You'll find there are times you feel differently about it even if the illustration seems unambiguous - a colour or minor background detail may seem more important than what the main figure(s) is doing for that one spread.

By the way, how do you know so much about all these different decks... it's mind blowing!

Ah, it's no big deal - I'm an Old Broad (and a broad broad), I've been around a while. I own lots of decks, so I've been able to look at lots of different images. I think, I sometimes read.

It all comes together into a body of knowledge that really is all your own, eventually, and it will for you, too. It just takes time and sustained interest.

 

[DrDave]

<smile>
Swords equates to the element of Air. Air is about the intellect, about the power of thought, so every card will reflect this in some way. Now, many numerologists from a couple of different styles think that the number five is about change. So we derive a meaning of this card from both "change" or instability, and "thought" or mind.

This leads me to read these decks as though there is a deep shift happening in the way people view their situations, their jobs, their families, their relationships - whatever is being read about.

Then a card promising changes in the way people think in this situation (the Five Swords) comes along. This may not be so negative. Perhaps some change in the way the boss thinks will affect the conditions at work, or workmates may think differently about exclusion and bullying. The ideas and innovations that the subject may have thought of to improve work practive that may have been ignored before, might now be regognised as potentially profitable or efficient, and may be adopted. The subject of hte reading finds that due to changes in the way others (and they) think about the job, working conditions have improved, motivation has improved, and things are no longer so bad.

.

OK the heavy hitters in Tarot are commenting
I have read your posts forever
you are fantastic Rachel

My fave deck is Cosmic Tarot the 5 swords sees the hapless man lying spreadeagled in a desert not bound just chilling out sun bathing if you will
Oh soooo must change his ideas otherwhise he is going to become Jerky

Rachel is right change of ideas numerology and the essence of swords

There is a need to regroup and rethink the game plan,to discover your blind spots, the weak links, and take corrective measures before getting back into the field for another round.

Acceptance of inherent limitations of the situation
you need to accept the reality of things

I like this discussion style
Dr Dave

 

[missy]

I think the guy in the foreground looks really smug, even pleased with himself that he has caused hurt and perhaps embarrassment to the other people in the background. Does it perhaps represent feelings of inadequacy?

I can't find any redeeming features in this card... but maybe there's not meant to be.

I'm not a whiz kid like nisaba; I'm just going to go for the plain vanilla RWS version, plus anything else that comes to mind.

Looking at the RWS card, I see a man who has won a battle by fighting dirty. I see deception, I see he has hurt other people, or perhaps a warning that one will get hurt if one doesn't act to get out of his way or to alter the situation.

This man does seem smug, and pleased with himself. He is a liar, or may represent a warning to watch out for obvious obstacles in our path, because they are not imaginary; they are real adversaries with real power to hurt us. These are warnings to be heeded.

This is a man with no honor. He could represent someone we know, or someone or something working in the background, or an overall pervasive attitude of injustice. He could also represent a shadow side of ourselves: a part of us that wants to get ahead, regardless of how we may negatively affect those around us. This card could be a wake-up call to heed how we are behaving in a given situation. Perhaps we need to re-evaluate our priorities and what is important in our lives. Perhaps we need to stop relentlessly trying to get ahead at work, regardless of the cost, and instead put those we love first.

If I look at my favorite deck, the Rohrig (Thoth-based), at this image:

http://taroteca.multiply.com/photos/album/21/Carl_W._Rohrig#photo=81.jpg

which is named Defeat, first, it definitely matters where it appears in a reading. But card positioning in a reading would be applicable to any card's meaning.

It could mean that the man in the card defeats an adversary, an opponent, or an oppressive situation. It could mean the defeat it speaks of was caused by the man in question, who in fact is the victor. The victor could signify the Querent.

Or it could mean the man himself feels defeated: the problems of the world seem insurmountable. Maybe they truly feel insurmountable, or maybe there is hope. It depends on the surrounding cards.

The man in the card is surrounded by light. Perhaps he is coming out of a bad time and the light represents the hope he has for the future, or it represents the dawn which appears after the blackest night.

The man is surrounded by ruins. Perhaps the ruins are how he feels inside. Perhaps the battle he was in has left his soul feeling as though it is a pile of rubble. Or perhaps the ruins are things he has cast off in his journey forward. The ruins could be "of the past," and what he has cast aside in order to move forward, which all goes back to the idea of fives and "change."

 

[Sulis]

I like to use numerology and elements in my readings as well as the image on the card. I also link the Minors with the numerical equivalent Major so I see all the fives as aspects of The High Priest or Hierophant.

The fives are about change (as Nisaba has already explained), they are the thing that gets you out of the stability and the potential stagnation of the fours. They are often unexpected changes but in my experience they always offer a learning experience and and so an opportunity for growth (Hierophant and Temperance - both fives).
I like to think of the fives in tarot as blessings in disguise - they can be awful to live through but we look back of them and are glad to have had the experiences they brought because they've helped us in some way.

Five is also a very spiritual number and is one of the numbers of The Goddess: the human body makes up a pentagram shape with one head and four limbs, there are four elements linked together by the fifth element of spirit - lots of decks that have feminine spirituality as their theme have very positive five cards because of this.

So swords are linked to air, communication, the mind, words and also problems and conflict - words and thoughts can hurt just as much as actions..
The Five of Swords comes half way through the suit, it shows the change that takes us away from the four so it could mean a drastic change of mind (although not really if you're looking at the RWS image), sort of like a mini Tower experience, a revelation. This isn't always a bad thing and neither are the arguments and battles that this card can point to either. If something is not good and needs to change then maybe this card would be welcomed if it showed up.
It can also mean communication problems. I've had it show up in relationship readings before when one or both parties feel as if they're not being listened to or just not getting through and not being heard.
As a card of advice it could be advising you to put your own interests first; selfishness is not always a bad thing.

Journalling is a good idea - pull a card at the end of the day and look for it's energies in the day you've just had.. That way you get your own meanings and you really learn what certain cards mean to you.
Doing readings is another way of really getting your head around a card's meanings.

Remember too that you don't always have to look for the good in a card - bad things do happen in life and the cards reflect that.

 

[Sulis]

You'll find some more threads on how to read the Five of Swords in the index at the top of this forum - scroll down to 'Fives': http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=77113

In the Rider-Waite-Smith forum there are threads about the symbolism and how to read the cards - here's a link to the index there - again scroll down to the fives: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=58676

And in the Marseilles forum the 'How may it be read?' threads are a very good read.
The 5 of Swords there is called '5 d'Epees': http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=31857
The 'How may it be read?' threads are in the third thread down.

 

[Mind]

I've enjoyed reading all the comments - really interesting. DrDave, I'm glad you like this discussion style... that's what I really enjoyed with a similar discussion yesterday on the 3 of swords. Having a debate is a great way to get your inner thoughts out... I just find they come pouring out in response to someone else's great observations.

It really sets things in my mind and gives definite options of interpretion.

It's also interesting to read through comments on another decks... I must say, it doesn't seem quite as dramatic as the RWS image. At least no-one is being attacked or ganged-up-on in that image - and Missy, you're not far behind Nisaba/Rachel with your knowledgeable discussion on your deck.

Sulis, using the numerology and Major's to give a fuller picture is great... I think I will try to use that technique to expand on meanings - otherwise I just feel compelled to draw endless cards... which I guess just becomes confusing in the end.

I am reaching for my journal now, to add in all this extra information.

I am looking forward to analysing another card... I will do my best to pick a different suit tomorrow, although those darn Sword cards draw me in every time

Something tells me I'm going to start liking them soon...

 

[DrDave]

five swords

how does one post an image of a card
with so many decks it is kool to see lots of 5 sword cards in a post or multiple posts