Are reversing the cards in deck really necessary?

[lilpeanut]

Wow, I know this is going to start a red hot debate! I learned to read my cards with them all upright and to intuitively know which ones meanings were to be reversed. I have always had very accurate readings this way and then I decided to "mess" up my deck as suggested and try readings this way. With true reversals. How on earth is it possible to think that the same card coming up over and over upside down would apply to everyone? This is not accurate. All you are doing is messing up the deck. Numerically the number of reversed and non reversed will pretty much stay the same and always will be. Even if you flip the whole deck around the other half will be reversed and what if one of those weren't meant to be in your reading? I guess what I am getting at is how reversing the card physically can make a difference in a reading. I think it hinders it and will give a false reading.
In my opinion the deck should all be one direction then intuitively you know which card doesn't fit right and the meaning is to go the other way.
For example you are doing a reading on the outcome of a relationship, and all along you see heartbreak and that it is not going good and then at the end it shows 3/cups. Well of course that one means it should be taken as the opposite meaning. That it won't work out. Not a celebration or happy ending. I guess where I learned this was a book called "The Tarot Handbook" by Hajo Banzhaf. It is a fabulous book, but does not use reversals but positive and negative meanings of cards.
I wanted to know what you all thought of this and your opinions.
Lil Peanut

 

[Skysteel]

Hi, Lil Peanut. Personally, I don't understand how one is supposed to generate reversals i.e. is one supposed to just randomly twist some cards whilst shuffling?
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Also, some decks seem more conducive to reversals than others - decks with symmetrical card-backs, decks which have fairly abstract pip-cards, etc.

 

[firecatpickles]

On a poll taken here, most people never use reversals. The argument goes, that there are so many available interpretations without the reversals, why do you need them? (I am not endorsing this attitude, because I actually can and do read reversals sometimes.)

I have heard the "forced" argument, too, that if you force some reversals in the deck, then you are forcing a reading. I don't buy this argument. I think it si fallacious, because afterall, isn't merely shuffling a deck forcing the order of cards? I think so. And, most people I read for end up "accidentally" reversing some cards as it is, I don't have to tell them to force it.

But is it necessary? It all depends on what you want to know. I used a spread that actually required reversals in it, a yes-no spread, and I used it for a friend at work and it was very useful.

Currently I have abandoned the practice, but if and when I return, I will not, and I never have considered, consider using the "opposite" meaning for a reversal. That as much does not make sense to me. Thriteen has an interesting series on REVERSALS everyone should check out; that goes into detail about the theory in practice; if and when one shows up in a reading because most clients don't know how to shuffle worth a damn!


KK

 

[Fatima]

One should always be careful not to be judgemental of other people's way of reading cards.
If reversals are so popular and have been used for so long, it means that for some (or better, for the *majority* of card readers out there) it works. And not only does it work, but it is a complete tradition of working with cards in itself dating back to Etteila's days (and even possibly before).
That you do not know how to use reversals is your choice, path or need for more training, but that does not give you the right to call other people's readings with reversals "false".
One should be open-minded enough to realise that the cards speak to their owner, and to the owner only. If you come from a mindset where reversals are weird then the reading won't sound right and that's alright. If you have integrated the reversal as part of your practice, then they will fit right in and give you amazing results and that's alright too.

Now, if your issue is a lack of education on the topic of reversals, Joan Bunning's and Mary Greer's books are good references. *Real* practice also helps.
Otherwise, the system of dignities is another option.

If one's approach to the cards is that intuition is all that matters, and techniques and knowledge are to be scorned, then maybe, one would benefit more from systems such are scrying, dream work etc. where intuition can fully express itself.

If your current way of working the cards works for you, don't mess with it.
But if you want to understand the use of reversals, you have to sit down and learn about it first.
Then, once you know what you're talking about, you can criticise.

F.

 

[Jacko85]

I don't use reversals but that's due to lack of experience - I'm still trying to learn all the upright meanings!

I doubt I ever will though, it's best to keep things simple I guess

[EDIT] FYI however, sometimes my cards do get reversed without me "forcing" them. I only ever do readings for myself though so I generally ignore it. Perhaps I should take more note in future

 

[lilpeanut]

Oh I am not critisizing those that use it as much as the mathematics behind the same cards always being reversed in the deck. Never would I go after the people or their methods, I am saying that using a messed up pack of cards doesn't seem to make any logical sense.
Lil

 

[firecatpickles]

using a messed up pack of cards doesn't seem to make any logical sense.

Let me try to change your mind

Say that you had a deck of 78 cards and somehow you bought a duplicate deck and noted on each card which cards had the different meanings. This duplicate deck has opposing, though not necessarily opposite, meanings. You would now have a deck of 156 cards, correct?

So you take your 156 card deck and you shuffle and shuffle and shuffle and do a reading with the reversals and non-reversals in the spread, and this gives you deeper insight into the reading because you possess the knowledge and experiences to do this. Is this really any different than using the actual 156 cards at once. Can I not play "pretend?"

Instead of using 156 cards, I have only 78, and I have asked the querent to mix up the cards so that some of the cards will be facing the other direction when dealt or when dealing out the spread I have turned some around the way and that because my intuition asked me to do this. And because it is just like, as I have suggeted above, using 156 cards instead of 78.

Either using a duplicate deck marked for reversals, or a deck designed with reversals in mind, or shuffling with reversals in mind, should not be considered "forcing" a deck, IMHO; it is merely a different method in cartomancy, tarot and shuffling all together.

KK

 

[Jacko85]

My cards reverse whilst I'm shuffling. The buggers jump out all over the place

 

[Umbrae]

I am saying that using a messed up pack of cards doesn't seem to make any logical sense.
Lil

We're talking Tarot here...logical sense? Fortune telling = logical?

Some of us reverse, some of us don't. Experience will tell you that just cuz a card's upside down does not necessarily mean its reversed.

Some sitters spin one half of the deck around to get a better hold on the deck for shuffling, that reverses one half the pack. The next time reverses some of the reversals.

But the question was, “Is it necessary?”

No.

Heck, reading the cards face up ain’t really necessary – I heard a speaker this last weekend discuss ‘The Whole World is an Oracle’. Cards simplify the process, that’s all.

Heck, toothpick readings use no reversals…

 

[HarleyQuinnX]

If I'm reading for someone else, I usually have the querent cut the deck into four or five little piles and hand the piles to me, one by one. Usually they twist one or two before giving it to me, generating reverals. (Kinda sneaky, huh? )

And if I'm reading for myself, I just twist a some while I'm shuffling. Usually about 1/8 of the deck.

But, by all means, reversals aren't necessary. If you don't want to use them, you don't have to. As can be seen in this thread, it doesn't really look like there is a 'right' or a 'wrong' way.