Brian Williams Minchiate

[Macavity]

Brian Williams Minchaite

Having had this deck on my wishlist for a LONG time, I received my copy today. I had always felt (personally) the cards to be a bit bland - true perhaps, but they certainly DO look much more attractive "in person"! And, anticipation notwithstanding, I really was "blown away" by the accompanying book. Truly a wonderful historical/mythological Tarot reference - so readable(!), and... those wonderful line drawings.

I was interested to see how Brian Williams might handle the divinatory meanings for the minors. He says: "The divinatory meanings [...] have been adapted from the standard Tarot tradition - in "conversation" with the unique images of the Minchiate pips, when they arise". Ah, we're back to those "standard meanings", Eh? Ah well, you can't have everything!

It did make me think that it's a real shame he never tackled the Marseille deck itself...

Macavity

Oops, I can't spell Minchiate (sic) - I was amused to see it had rather a "rude" meaning in Italian. Applicable at just these times?

 

[Ross G Caldwell]

Re: Brian Williams Minchaite

I was interested to see how Brian Williams might handle the divinatory meanings for the minors. He says: "The divinatory meanings [...] have been adapted from the standard Tarot tradition - in "conversation" with the unique images of the Minchiate pips, when they arise". Ah, we're back to those "standard meanings", Eh? Ah well, you can't have everything!

It did make me think that it's a real shame he never tackled the Marseille deck itself...

Macavity

Oops, I can't spell Minchiate (sic) - I was amused to see it had rather a "rude" meaning in Italian. Applicable at just these times? [/B]

I haven't been able to get Williams' Minchiate here (in southern France) yet. I only have the "Ancient Minchiate Etruria" by Lo Scarabeo. Some blurry edges, otherwise beautiful, but apparently it's the only edition of this deck so everybody has to put up with it. The Minchiate Fiorentine is apparently available all over Italy; I haven't been there yet to pick up a copy.

Minchiate does have delightfully naughty meanings, by all accounts. Autorbis has something to say about early appearances of the name (1471) in Florence - much earlier than before known -
http://www.geocities.com/autorbis/Florenzcards2.html

The rules are obscure. Does Williams mention how to play the game in his book?

Ross

 

[baba-prague]

Hi,

I also have a copy of Brian Williams Minchiate and love it. Yes, I agree that the cards are a bit variable and I was told by the person who sent me the deck (who was a friend of Brian Williams) that he wasn't satisfied with the quality of colour printing - the colours apparently came out rather different than intended. However the book manages to be both very informative and also charming - a real gem. (and I don't mean I dislike the cards, I agree they are better "in person" and also have a nice lightness of touch). Has anyone here tried reading with them? I haven't yet, but intend to. I think it would be interesting.

SO - on the subject of editions of the Minchiate, Ross there is a very nice one by Solleone. It's from 1980, but still available at Alida. It is very unvarnished and prime-coloured - ie to modern eyes almost a little crude in feel - but for this very reason probably pretty authentic. Personally I like it. Again, I haven't done much with it since I got it, but my intention is to sit down with this deck and the Brian Williams and really compare.

Incidentally, it was Brian Williams' Minchiate that persuaded us (at the very last minute) to sneak "Prudence" in the Tarot of Prague. I just felt she was demanding not to be left out!

 

[Macavity]

I'm never sure whether Amazon will deliver to other continents? But Amazon UK delivered mine (recently) on the advertised schedule of 7-9(?) days.

Yeah, I had it in mind to get William's deck, precisely to explain my Ancient Minchiate a bit better. Indeed, shame about some of the cards on this latter - Like they photo-enlarged SOME of the to get rid of bad edges? Nice card stock though

No, Williams doesn't give the game rules. Since I quite like these decks, I've been looking at: www.playingcardsales.co.uk/cards/moreimages/11123_5_minchiate_fiorentine_solleone.jpg
Nice for a "Marseille" fan? Available from the above supplier and comes in a box with the "rules" - and (of course) based in France

Macavity

 

[Macavity]

Great minds think alike Baba-P!

On reading... Well, I dabble? For the Brian Williams, I was making the transition (from Tarot) stagewise. Perhaps my most immediate "lack" was in the High Priestess and Empress area (the Grand Duke didn't do much for me!) so I was indeed looking at the graces - and notably Prudence(!) for help. Against all the various "emperors" the FOUR might close the gender gap?

Then onto the elements... Hmmm...

Then the Zodiac cards.... Perhaps as "people"? Though, knowing my fairly constant troubles with the court cards, in THAT role, maybe NOT?

Macavity

 

[Myrrha]

Has anyone here tried reading with them? I haven't yet, but intend to. I think it would be interesting.

I have readings (for myself) in my journal done with both these decks...I did not find them easy decks to read with. The readings with the Brian Williams Minchiate seem more inner-directed and thoughtful, with a more moralistic tone. One with the Ancient Minchiate Etruria was surprisingly practical and to the point when I really needed help. The little pictures on some of the minors seemed to suggest half-remembered children's stories and fables about clever animals that found their way into the readings.

A reader with a predictive approach could probably use the zodiac cards to establish time frame. They could also suggest which attitudes woud be more useful in a situation, the blustery fighting spirit of Aries or the prudent, detail-oriented carefulness of Virgo, and so forth.

Myrrha

 

[baba-prague]

readings

I think you've definitely persuaded me to try reading with the Brian Williams deck. I found his explanations of the significance of the animals useful. Certainly some of their meanings I was aware of, but others were new to me. Now that you've discussed how the presence of the animals affected your reading I'm really interested to try. I'll need to find a willing and slightly brave querent!

I'm not sure that I could work directly with the zodiac symbols - but on the other hand even at worst I suppose I'll learn something (even if the poor querent doesn't ;-) )

 

[Macavity]

A reader with a predictive approach could probably use the zodiac cards to establish time frame. They could also suggest which attitudes woud be more useful in a situation

Indeed, some useful ideas.

The extra "categories" prompted me to think of Rachel Pollack's idea for the Haindl i.e. the Hagall Spread. There, she uses cards groups: Major, Minor, Court, read against (one or more) positions dedicated to (roughly!) the Spiritual, Mundane and inter-personal resp. I guess this could be extended to include e.g. the zodiac categories? Just musing...

Yes, the animals are great/useful! Hah, I do like the ancient "concept" elephant!

It's a slight shame the Minchiate and e.g. Etteilla "authors" didn't finish the work of part-illustrating the minors, with cameos. For better or worse, I still find these useful in divination, rather than the completely unillustrated pips. Perhaps I will ultimately move towards a (modern) rendition of this, such as the "Old English Tarot" maybe?

Macavity

 

[Myrrha]

The extra "categories" prompted me to think of Rachel Pollack's idea for the Haindl i.e. the Hagall Spread. There, she uses cards groups: Major, Minor, Court, read against (one or more) positions dedicated to (roughly!) the Spiritual, Mundane and inter-personal resp. I guess this could be extended to include e.g. the zodiac categories? Just musing...

That sounds like a very good idea, a spread that includes one of each kind would make use of the variety in this deck. The element cards seem very emotional, or maybe they could somehow be read in conjunction with the zodiac cards.

I ordered the Etteilla!! (The one with the white background cards, the one produced by Alliette) Can't wait to get it! What spreads do you use with that? Do you ignore the keywords or use them?

Myrrha

 

[Macavity]

Originally posted by Myrrha I ordered the Etteilla!! What spreads do you use with that? Do you ignore the keywords or use them?

Sorry, I forgot to answer this... Unfortunately I'm no expert on this. The Grimaud Etteilla comes with a fascinating and hugely comprehensive "divinatory scheme" - exotic spreads and card combinations with quite specific interpretations. It also has some odd and intriguing (vernacular?) card names: "Hirama's Freemasonry", "The Order of the Mopses" etc.

Now I have often wondered where all this comes from - Some French Cartomancy Tradition maybe? But, if anyone knows...

Macavity