Card (over)analysis and seeking opinions – is it a good thing?

[fall_guy]

Not wishing to offend anyone (especially newbies), but is it really a good thing to seek other opinions on what ‘this card means’ in relation to ‘blah, blah, blah’?
When I read, I go by my first instinct – i.e as soon as I turn over a card, I go by what pops in my head straight away. For me, I kind of feel this is where intuition really comes from (that quick flash of inspiration you get when you first see the image).

I used to ponder over the cards, but ultimately felt that ‘the message’ starts slipping away as soon as you start thinking what else it could mean (or in the case of this forum, start asking what other people think). Like I said I’m not trying to offend anyone (and I know newbies are just trying to learn) but I kind of feel that focusing on the moment – when it’s just you and the cards, and what springs to YOUR mind – is when you’re really clicking with the cards and your intuition. Perhaps this is what 'intuitive reading' is all about?

Anyone else feel the same?

 

[AngelC]

I do to some extent.
I've stopped reading every interpretation because they turn out so different. Three people answering and you have three completely different pictures. It's so much about what that card means to each person, if a deck tried to give a certain message to the other people now trying to read the same cards it might have looked a lot different just to get to the same result.
I do read some though, as I draw my own cards to see what I come up with looking at the same issue. Just as a practise thing.

On the other hand it's good to find inspiration and look at cards in new ways but not in the middle of a reading.

 

[Nimbus]

I would tend to agree. My style is definetely an intuitive/collaborative one with the querant. The idea of over-analysis can bog things down.

The querant's question, the context of the card in the spread, in relation to the others, will certainly have an influence. Learning to go with that first 'gut reaction' takes not only practice, but courage as sometimes the first reaction can be quite unsettling. I am still learning this lesson!

I do find that I continue to learn more about the cards by reading the threads "what does this card mean" but when I do so, I am an outside observer and can gain valuable insight without having to try and take a part of each response and somehow make it fit into a reading.

Just avoid paralysis by analysis!

~Nimbus

 

[JennyM]

Not wishing to offend anyone (especially newbies), but is it really a good thing to seek other opinions on what ‘this card means’ in relation to ‘blah, blah, blah’?
When I read, I go by my first instinct – i.e as soon as I turn over a card, I go by what pops in my head straight away. For me, I kind of feel this is where intuition really comes from (that quick flash of inspiration you get when you first see the image)

I was just pondering this. Can I trust my first instinct...or is my first "instinct" merely what I WANT the card to mean? For example, I just asked how someone felt about something and I drew two cards: The Magician and the 5 of Swords. At first, I interpreted that postively (creative energy used to verbally give someone the "beating" they deserved)...but then after a few minutes I started to wonder. Might I have been WAY off...and the person really felt it was someone aggressively abusing their creativity to hurt someone with their words? Which is correct? Should I trust my first idea? In other words, was I over-analyzing?

 

[zach bender]

Sometimes (in your own readings) you do "know" immediately what the card "means," or what several cards "mean" together -- even if these "meanings" are at some remove from conventional "book" meanings (for a couple of weeks now (16) tower has popped up in my own readings in a context in which it seems to be shorthand for my companion's exploratory trip to another city, to which we may move) --, sometimes it is a puzzle. I think in the case of a puzzle it is okay to ask someone else how they might see it, in a context you establish for them. They might want you to rethink the context itself, and maybe this is helpful, maybe not. I have tried to keep my commentary on this forum on specific readings of specific cards in specific contexts to a minimum.

zb

 

[RubyRuby]

but is it really a good thing to seek other opinions on what ‘this card means’ in relation to ‘blah, blah, blah’?

I enjoy reading what other's insights are into specific cards and readings. I myself, am not very articulate when trying to express myself so reading what other people say has helped me tremendously in that respect.

Also, sometimes I also find that certain cards just don't make any sense in respect to the reading that I'm doing, intuitively or from my notes or from my books. It's nice to get some perspective that way as well.

To me, insight from other readers is never a bad thing. It helps us learn.

Ruby

 

[Umbrae]

Over-analysis is a dreadful thing. First you have to check your books, all fourteen of them (Do Mary and Rachel say the same thing? Give me a week and I’ll check Tomberg too…) then gotta post and get 27 more ideas…

Then, even if we lay out the volumes of information that’s published by reputable authors and posters (with over 500 posts just to make sure) the real key is…

You’re still gonna have that fear niggling at the back of your medulla oblongata as you spill the words…what if I’m wrong…?

I was once out strolling one very hot summer's day
When I thought I'd lay myself down to rest
in a big field of tall grass
I lay there in the sun and felt it caressing my face

We gather more information, more opinions, more analysis to battle the specter of ‘being wrong’.

And I fell asleep and dreamed
I dreamed I was in a Hollywood movie
And that I was the star of the movie
This really blew my mind, the fact that me,
an overfed, long-haired leaping gnome
should be the star of a Hollywood movie

Authors, want you to keep reading books – which is why very few ever talk about how to really read. See really reading Tarot requires you get over that fear, really reading Tarot is about looking at a Tarot card and then…looking a stranger in the eye, and having a conversation.

But there I was, I was taken to a place, the hall of the mountain kings
I stood high upon a mountaintop, naked to the world
In front of every kind of girl, there was
black ones, round ones, big ones, crazy ones...

Now posters, unless they’ve sat across the table from strangers, and looked them in the eye and delivered a varied mix of good and bad news, unless they’ve seen the sitters teetering on insanity, wrestling a losing battle with guilt, nursing the bruises of abuse for a few years…all they’ve got is an opinion…and personal bias. Practical information is scarce.

Out of the middle came a lady
She whispered in my ear something crazy
She said:
Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl
Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl

I mean inside each of us is a desire to do a good reading, we don’t wanna screw over the client, give bad advice, or con them outta money. I doubt if any of us are the type to try to sell the sitter a candle for $600 to clear away a make believe curse…but that niggling voice…what if I’m wrong?

I thought to myself what could that mean
Am I going crazy or is this just a dream
Now, wait a minute
I know I'm lying in a field of grass somewhere
so it's all in my head
and then.. I heard her say one more time:

Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl
Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl

James Rickleff wrote a book called ‘Tarot Tells the Tale’ which many folks (myself included) say is about Three Card Readings. It’s not. The book is about how to put together the story the cards tell. Its about how to figure out which meaning is appropriate. Rickleff is not only a wonderful person, but also a brilliant writer.

I could feel hot flames of fire roaring at my back
As she disappeared, but soon she returned
In her hand was a bottle of wine, in the other, a glass
She poured some of the wine from the bottle into the glass
And raised it to her lips
And just before she drank it, she said:

Personal bias works fine in personal readings – but when reading for strangers, that’s the first thing that’s got to go. Personal bias is the voice of ego that stands between you and your intuition. Ego is the voice that says, “What if you’re wrong”. Ego is what makes us a crap reader. Ego is is the voice that questions. And what really should we do?

Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl
Spill the wine and take that pearl, Spill the wine and take that pearl

 

[MercyMe]

Tarot Dancing

I just wrote about this on 78 Notes the other day.

There is a dance we do among the meanings when we look at a card, a mental and emotional dance that, as a tarot beginner, feels awkward and out-of synch at first, but which becomes easier and more fluid the longer we work with the cards. I remember becoming very frustrated with the dance when I first started learning the card meanings because there seemed to be so many different choices, how was I to know which one to choose? I could look at the Three of Cups and see, literally, a get-together with women friends, or metaphorically, a supportive environment, feeling at one with humanity, friendship, or caring. As I stumbled through the dance steps of tarot reading, I would become frustrated and wonder how I was ever going to actually read these cards. This was a new dance and I felt so out of step with the music. In fact, I couldn't even hear the music at first.

I think my initial stumbling was natural, of course, as one doesn't learn to tango simply by looking at a chart of steps in a book, but by actually getting up on your feet and dancing, rather badly at first. To music. Which isn't to say the diagrams aren't helpful, they can be. Books about reading tarot are helpful, too. But reading cards by the book is not reading the cards any more than mimicking dance steps on a chart is actually dancing. I mean, does that feel like dancing to you? I'll tell you what feels like dancing to me: when I become so caught up in the music that my body responds so naturally and fluidly to the sound that there is very little thought put into my movements. It's trancelike and it feels right. There's a similar "zone" to tarot reading, when you're feeling your way through the images and while you are intimately familiar with the traditional meanings, you have practiced the "steps," you become carried off on the waves of imagery and feel which combination of meanings is right for this reading, for this dance.

I'm sure you've heard the encouragement to "dance like no one's watching." Well, read tarot like that, too. Shut off the internal critic. Dare to stumble and get it "wrong." Be foolish and say the first thing that comes to mind, even if it's something nonsensical to you like, "I'm thinking rutabaga here, have no idea why." Go out on limbs and read tarot like that. Oh sure, you'll stumble. You'll miss a beat. The music might fool you and you'll go left when you should have gone right. Yes. That will happen. Stepping on toes is part of the process. But I danced barefoot last night in a crowd of drunken people fully understanding the risk. I got up there when no one else was dancing and danced alone. Like no one was watching.

 

[Thirteen]

Keeping Your Instincts Alive

Not wishing to offend anyone (especially newbies), but is it really a good thing to seek other opinions on what ‘this card means’ in relation to ‘blah, blah, blah’?
When I read, I go by my first instinct – i.e as soon as I turn over a card, I go by what pops in my head straight away.

As devil's advocate, I'd like to point out that you seem to be misundertanding why people post questions on "what this card means." Yes, there are some people who don't trust themselves and need to build up confidence in their intincts, especially newbies. It's not an uncommon problem. In fact, it's so common as to be pretty boring.

But that doesn't mean that newbies, or anyone else, should avoid asking for the opinions of others, or reading books, or anything else to feed and build up those intincts. Because such questions aren't ALWAYS a matter of not trusting one's instincts. To the contrary, in a good many such posts the person says, "I can't get anything from this card! It make no sense to me...."

THAT means that their instincts went dead when they looked at that card. If their instincts were up and flashing that instant message you so rely on, well...they probably wouldn't have posted a message saying, "I don't get it!"

Hello?

And the same thing ALWAYS happens. People here offer that poster a dozen different views, but the person who asked the question will latch onto one and say, "THAT's IT!" Meaning, yes, their instincts came awake, as if the thoughts of someone else were a cup of coffee. Suddenly, everything is all clear. The instincts were starving, having trouble working. Now they've been fed and they are alive again.

Usually, after that one post, the person will write in excitement that the whole SPREAD had come clear thanks to the discussion they've been having with people on that one card.

Sometimes, the third eye is open and a person can see as far as they can see into the mysteries--or into anything else for that matter. Their instincts are alive and they need not rely on anyone or anything. Other times, the eye is shut and we need a little brainstorming with others, a little give and take and chatting and input to get it to open up and give us that insight. A bit of the Hermit's light if you will.

No human being seeking anything can find that thing in a vaccum. Leave the mind unstimulated, cut it off from knowledge, from the counter and contrary thoughts of others, from gathering information so that it can see new and different perspectives...and you leave that mind in the dark. Like the Hermit without a lantern. You starve those instincts you so value. Starve them to death.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[star-lover]

some mixed thoughts

as a newbie, i just love all those threads, what does such and such a card mean in the outcome, or what does x mean in how does someone feel about you etc

i get all sorts of views and it is brainstorming and i believe helps you come to your own conclusions in the end

i understand you fallguy what you mean - we should try find our own meanings and not rely on others experiences only of course, but its hard when youre new and it helps to chat about it - you know thrash things out and yes sometimes its the blind leading the blind especially when its newbies talking to newbies - bit its fun too

oh and its happened to me on a couple of occasions when i've said what this card means to me and a couple of the professionals on here have said *ah i really like that* like it was something they never considered before - so it can work both ways - and at the time i remember thinking YES YES - i've done my work and its been validated /acknowledged by thos who know more - i did something rightand its a fantastic feeling

BUT you're right, i know i cheat when i get a card and i dont like it and i rack my brain through old threads to remember more positive interpretations lol when i suspect full well what it is actually saying! so your point about *trying to make another meaning fit* rings true in this case

what i do agree with is when you do a full reading and ask for others opinion - when they use a different deck to you i dont see how its possible to come out with a correct interp thats more valid than yours - but lots do this - including myself - this is always a question i wanted to ask - arent different decks alot of the time different in meanings? i find this brings some confusion

i guess just work work with your cards on your own as much as you can then talk talk and share, get feedback, and it all goes on
i guess we eventually sort the wheaf from the chaffe in our own minds and get to be better at reading
i think relaxing and taking it slow is also what i've learnt very important

jmo