Classification of Tarot

Sulis

Kenny said:
As long as they are all based off the same idea, ie the seven of cups means many choices, then that also counts.
But just because the Waite system says that the Seven of Cups means many choices, does that mean that every system has to have the Seven of Cups meaning many choices.
I know that for folks who use the TdM deck, the seven of Cups may not always mean many choices. I'm not sure about the Thoth system as I don't use that deck but I have a feeling that it doesn't necessarily mean 'many choices'.
Does this mean that the Tarot de Marseille and the Thoth aren't Tarot because the minors have different meanings to the Waite minors?
 

SunChariot

Me too(to what room said), I like originality in my Tarots, I like each deck to make me see the world in a new way, through new eyes. If I have 21 Tarots (which I think I do, last count?) I like them to represent 21 unique views of the world and life. If they all meant exactly the same, to me I would not need more than one deck.

Bar
 

Grizabella

tarotreader2007 said:
I know I'm going to have people attacking me for saying some of this stuff, but I simply can't stand people loosely putting the word tarot on a deck of random pictures (cool as it may be) because I hold tarot high and I take it as an insult someone trying to skate these things by that "possess" the name tarot.

Thank you.

tarotreader2007

**PEACE**

I know what you're saying but I just don't get ruffled by things I can't change. If I like a deck I get it, whether it says Tarot and then departs from the standard idea of a Tarot deck or not.

For instance, the Wild Spirit says it's Tarot, but it's way far off from the standard idea of a Tarot deck. Other people say it's really an oracle. That's fine with me. It's so personal to me that when I talk about Tarot decks, I don't really think about it as being lumped in with the rest of my decks so maybe it really is an oracle. If the creator wanted to call it Tarot, though, I don't mind.

I think if a person wants to be purist, then they'd have to stick with RWS, Thoth and Marseille decks and just ignore the rest.

Bottom line is, if someone doesn't like the Tarot decks that deviate from what they deem to be strictly "Tarot", then just don't buy them and don't browse them. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be created, though, or that they shouldn't be called Tarot.

I guess for me it's like the saying "Don't sweat the small stuff----and it's all small stuff." If not for change, there never would have been a RWS or a Golden Dawn or a Thoth.
 

Umbrae

Last autumn, I was giving a talk in Durango and a lady asked me, “What about the evil and satanic associations with Tarot?”

“Only in America.”

“What?”

“It really only has that image in the US, and not quite so much in the UK.”

“What are you talking about?”

“On the continent, they still play the game.”

“What game?”

“Tarocchi, Tarrok, Atouts, Tarot…”

“A game?”

“Yup…historically, we know that Tarot cards were used to play the game of Atouts, or Tarocchi, or Tarrok – depending on which country you’re in. It’s still played.”

Her world changed. Tarot cards are the Monopoly of the 1400’s.

Take a look at the Tarots Oreste Zevola, it’s a non-scenic deck that tends towards harsh in imagery and coloration. It’s Tarot. It’s also Tarocchi. In Europe, it’s quite common for artists to get their work known, by illustrating Tarots. Look at Enzo Viviani. Some art only makes it as far as limited edition folio’s, others get turned into art decks.

Tarot can be and is, many things. We cannot in our cultural stagnation mandate what is and what isn’t – this makes a rather narrow sighted view of our culture and training.

Art decks are common in Europe. As the world gets smaller – those decks become available here. For us to judge them as non-tarot based on our opinions is…

For many years, tarot based divination (in some places on the continent) was done with only 22 cards. Over in the UK and on the US side of the pond, it’s been 78 cards since the early twentieth century. So can we say that Tarocchi del Futuro is not a real tarot deck? That it only has 22 cards and is a Sci-Fi deck?

No. It’s Tarot.

Are there some good Art decks out there?

Yes.

Are there some really bad Art decks out there?

Well – art and Tarot is indeed in the eye of the beholder. There are some decks that I’d not be caught dead with.

There are others however…

Take the Wonderland Tarot – great stuff. Very suprising. Especially if you can get a copy with the original LWB.

Then there’s Tarot of the Imagination. Dreadful. However if you look at the Folio version (22 images) – it freakin’ rocks hardcore. But shrinking the images for Tarot, and further shrinking the images so you can put the card titles in 6 languages, and expanding the artists vision beyond where they origionally meant to go – leaves us with…frankly…a dreadful mess.

Classifying decks is difficult at best.

It’s a game.

It’s an oracle.

It’s Tarocchi, Atouts, Tarot…

I mean if you really really wanna get picky - the WCS is not Tarot...

Edited to add: Sometimes, random pics on the cards - upon further introspection, and within the context of the artists context - it all fits together and makes sense. A couple examples would be the Fantastic Menagerie and the Victorian Romantic – both are brilliant decks, but fall well outside the ‘norm’. Study of each, provides the vision of each as a holistic Tarot.
 

FaeryGodmother

Umbrae said:
....Her world changed. Tarot cards are the Monopoly of the 1400’s....
Hmmm. Divination by monopoly... what a great idea..... :D Actually I did once seriously consider trying to work out a way to divine with a Uno deck... but thats another story....



I love Tarot. I would not be here if i didn't . But I do not understand why Tarot decks have this semi divine status, as if, as a system, it has been handed down by the gods. I much prefer having vastly different decks that offer vastly different meanings- for example the Fey 6 of wands is a world away from the Whimsical 6 of wands. If that makes the decks i like oracles, then so be it- whats in a name anyway? Does it really matter? And if it does matter, who does it matter to?

When I read, I read whats in front of me; I'm not one of those readers who has all the historical/ kabbalistic/ astrological/ numerological/ etc influences. Does that still make me a "tarot" reader? Or simply an intuitive person using the cards in front of her as a jumping off point? Are you only a "tarot reader" if you are using an "approved" tarot deck? Or can anyone do it? What was the "approved" type of deck again?
 

suedeheadsmiths

What Makes Tarot

Well I'm no expert when it comes to the Tarot. I only have two decks styles, RWS and Crowley, and let me tell you there's a world of difference between the two for me. That being said, when I look at other decks online I still get a general sense of the Tarot. Don't know anything about oracles. Oh and can Umbrae or someone please tell me what WCS stands for? Oh and I finally learned what TDM means, thanks so much.


Chris
 

suedeheadsmiths

Rock N Roll Tarot

Wanted to say thanks to Papageno for reminding me of the Rock N Roll Tarot. I've been meaning to look it up and kept forgetting too. :)

Chris
 

room

suedeheadsmiths said:
Oh and can Umbrae or someone please tell me what WCS stands for?

Waite-Colman-Smith which is the politically correct term for the Rider-Waite deck.
 

suedeheadsmiths

Rcs

Duh I feel so ashamed, it's my favorite deck. I refer to it as the RWS, don't know how I missed that one.

Thanks, Chris
 

suedeheadsmiths

Why is RCS not Tarot?

Umm, Umbrae could you please expound on why WCS is not considered Tarot? I feel so wounded!!

Thanks,

Chris