Cosmic Tribe Court Cards

[DellArtista]

*peeking in*

I read with the Cosmic Tribe almost exclusively (the only others I have are a RW which I don't connect with, and the Deviant Moon which I've only just gotten) & have done so since I first started with tarot last year...

It's the court card set-up that's the one element that confuses me the most! I was glad to find this thread & wondered if anyone would mind reviving a discussion on it?

What was written as an equivalent by Tarotbear --

Prince/Princess - male and female Pages
Knight as Knight
Queen as King (or both)
No King at all.

Is quite close to how I've felt... the Queens as King, the Knight as Knight, the Prince & Princess as Pages.

But then I start to wonder if my readings are missing out at all by not having the traditional interpretations/energy of the Queens fitting into that picture.

I think what I've started to do most of the time is something like --

Prince = Page or Knight by traditional interp, depending on other factors in reading.
Princess = Page or Queen by traditional interp, again depending.
Knight = Knight or King by traditional interp, depending.
Queen = King or Queen by traditional interp, depending.

...Which seems to work well enough, but I'm quite interested to read the previous posts on how others see it & wondered if anyone had any other thoughts on it.

(Part of me also wonders sometimes if the traditional equivalents I assign the court cards to with the cosmic tribe are too caught up in traditional gender roles, particularly since one of my favorite things about the deck is how it really seems to transcend a gender binary, etc but... I guess that's another topic altogether! & I suppose reading Queen as King sort of accomplishes this too...?)

*oh, what a jumbled mess of a post I just made there, lol!*

 

[Jewel]

I think what I've started to do most of the time is something like --

Prince = Page or Knight by traditional interp, depending on other factors in reading.
Princess = Page or Queen by traditional interp, again depending.
Knight = Knight or King by traditional interp, depending.
Queen = King or Queen by traditional interp, depending.

...Which seems to work well enough, but I'm quite interested to read the previous posts on how others see it & wondered if anyone had any other thoughts on it.

(Part of me also wonders sometimes if the traditional equivalents I assign the court cards to with the cosmic tribe are too caught up in traditional gender roles, particularly since one of my favorite things about the deck is how it really seems to transcend a gender binary, etc but... I guess that's another topic altogether! & I suppose reading Queen as King sort of accomplishes this too...?)

Hi DelArtista, I would be more than happy to participate in disucssion of this deck with you. The CT is still one of my most favorite decks of all time, and I am actually using it in a study of 21 Ways (not the one I am doing here on AT, but one I recently started locally with a couple of friends).

As the years have gone by, I have to say that I have ditched tradition where these courts are concerned and I go completly intuitive in reading them. I do see the Queen as the matriarch, wich as this is a pagan deck I am not surprised to find that I feel that way. The Knight's role seems to take on sort of a Knight role though the Princess can sometimes take this role too. The Prince seems to usually fall more in line with the traditional Page role in my readings.

I know several of us stated that we read the courts more like the Thoth earlier in the thread, and Little Baron is correct in saying that in the Thoth the Knight is actually the traditional King, whereas in this deck that is not the case. As I have gained more tarot experience (this study group was initiated 6 years ago *LOL*), my views have changed and I find this deck is a 21st century deck that does not fit the mold of early 19th century traidtional meanings so the courts have a new dynamic (including gender role as you mentioned in your post). It is that dynamic that use in lieu of traditional court card meanings. Does this make any sense?

If you want to revive this study group I will be happy to study along with you as you bring up the threads. I am a HUGE fan of this deck so learning more about it from you and others that might decide to jump in would be fantastic!

 

[DellArtista]

Hi DelArtista, I would be more than happy to participate in disucssion of this deck with you. The CT is still one of my most favorite decks of all time, and I am actually using it in a study of 21 Ways (not the one I am doing here on AT, but one I recently started locally with a couple of friends).

Jewel, thanks for responding... I'm quite happy to meet another Cosmic Tribe fan! 21 Ways is on my list of books to get & I imagine it must be a fantastic deck to work on that with.

As the years have gone by, I have to say that I have ditched tradition where these courts are concerned and I go completly intuitive in reading them. I do see the Queen as the matriarch, wich as this is a pagan deck I am not surprised to find that I feel that way. The Knight's role seems to take on sort of a Knight role though the Princess can sometimes take this role too. The Prince seems to usually fall more in line with the traditional Page role in my readings.

The Princess as Knight is rather interesting -- now that I look at the court cards again I can see that quite clearly, though the idea hadn't occurred to me before. Looking at all of them again (I had brought them all out to try to answer the question posted way back in the thread on which court cards one liked best & least) and thinking on them, it also struck me how much I think a couple of the Knights could fit into the "traditional interpretation" of the Queen characteristics... with the Queens clearly seeming to stand above the rest, pure matriarch.

I am not as confident with my intuition & purely intuitive reading as I would like to be yet, so I still get a bit hung up on sticking to meanings... whether they're my own personal meanings or traditional.

I know several of us stated that we read the courts more like the Thoth earlier in the thread, and Little Baron is correct in saying that in the Thoth the Knight is actually the traditional King, whereas in this deck that is not the case. As I have gained more tarot experience (this study group was initiated 6 years ago *LOL*), my views have changed and I find this deck is a 21st century deck that does not fit the mold of early 19th century traidtional meanings so the courts have a new dynamic (including gender role as you mentioned in your post). It is that dynamic that use in lieu of traditional court card meanings. Does this make any sense?

I like that, and I think it does make sense to me. One of the things I absolutely love about this deck is the non-traditional dynamic... I love looking at the court cards & realizing that none of them are really boxed into the traditional gender roles, and that quite a few take on the roles of the other, etc.

The interesting thing for me is that I am new to tarot & do not have much experience with it -- but really, the gateway to tarot for me was this deck. I loved that a deck existed that spoke in my language of fluidity within gender & sexuality, etc. I could go on & on about those things in life, and have that as my experience. But since I have barely any tarot experience... that seems to be what pulls me to feel like I need to know or apply the tarot traditions... when in reality while I am fascinated to learn those traditions for just the sake of learning -- when it comes to the readings, perhaps I should remember the very reasons & life experiences that pulled me to the deck to begin with & set the tradition aside.

If you want to revive this study group I will be happy to study along with you as you bring up the threads. I am a HUGE fan of this deck so learning more about it from you and others that might decide to jump in would be fantastic!

That would be wonderful! I'm definitely game for this. I've explored the study groups the least out of the forums on here, so hopefully I'll be doing things right.... But I'd love to.

Thanks for the response & the new food for thought!

 

[Jewel]

It is always a pleasure for me too to meet another CT lover ~grins~. This is the deck of my heart I honestly think, and was one that I had purchased simply for collectors reasons due to the 3 Lovers cards (I actully was 100% I would not like it, at least not for reading *LOL*). When I first opened the box and started looking at the cards they just reeled me in with the vibrant colors, sense of life force and energy, and well here I am 7 years or so later still loving the deck . I have not read with it much in the last couple of years (got distracted exploring other decks *LOL*), but I have been missing so I was very thrilled to see a study group post revived as it will give me a chance to spend lots of time with it again.

Just know that there is no right or wrong way to study the deck. The threads we posted here were just our ideas at the time. We can explore and talk about anything you like related to this deck. I doubt there will be too many people jumping into study this deck with us, so I am happy to work this study group any way you would like. What I would recommend is that you find the posts about the design elements of the deck. I think they set a critical foundation for how this deck works. I believe I started a thread on each design element based on the companion book information on them. Over time you will see that I am forever trying to organize the way I study *LOL*.

Jewel, thanks for responding... I'm quite happy to meet another Cosmic Tribe fan! 21 Ways is on my list of books to get & I imagine it must be a fantastic deck to work on that with.

There are a couple of us around here ~chuckles~. There are also some that strongly dislike this deck, which is fine by me too. When you explore the older threads you will find some of those strong feelings that were expressed then.

In terms of the CT being a great deck to work with regarding 21 Ways only time will tell. Since the minors are what I call "moody-minors" (not fully scenic like the RWS, but not plain pips like the Marseille type decks) I could see where they will be challenging to do some of the steps with. I do not mean this to discourage you, but if you are new to tarot you might actaully try 21 Ways out with a deck that has scenic minors. I am actually working wiht a minor card in doing this work, and it has proven interesting thus far. But again, I have already almost completed working with 21 Ways with a deck with scenic minors and have gained an understanding of the steps, and I have also been working with this deck for several years now. But if you decide to go for it, I will be happy to help out whenever or wherever I can.

it also struck me how much I think a couple of the Knights could fit into the "traditional interpretation" of the Queen characteristics... with the Queens clearly seeming to stand above the rest, pure matriarch.

Which ones? I would love to explore this further.

I am not as confident with my intuition & purely intuitive reading as I would like to be yet, so I still get a bit hung up on sticking to meanings... whether they're my own personal meanings or traditional.

I completly undertand, after all these years it is pretty new to me! 21 Ways to read a Tarot card really helped me gain that confidence. I have almost completed all the work (not with the CT but another deck) and I really believe I am a much more confident and better reader than I was when I started. We can explore CT meanings, traditional, by the book, and intuitive. Now that my view point has changed on how I look at tarot cards I bet I will enjoy this deck even more than I always have and that is actully hard to believe possible! *LOL*.

One of the things I absolutely love about this deck is the non-traditional dynamic... I love looking at the court cards & realizing that none of them are really boxed into the traditional gender roles, and that quite a few take on the roles of the other, etc.

What is wierd is that is tradional in some aspects and not traditional in others. The courts are certainly more 21st century to me, and more dynamic. I think we can have a really good discussion regarding gender and the roles in the court in relation to this deck. It would be fun, and out of the box thinking in terms of tradition.

The interesting thing for me is that I am new to tarot & do not have much experience with it -- but really, the gateway to tarot for me was this deck.

Then I am honored to be included as part of your tarot journey. I am no tarot expert, but do have some experience (about 15 years or so). I do not read professionally (nor intend to), I only read for select friends and also as part of any study groups or whatever here on AT. Until the last couple of years really I was very insecure in my abilities despite others telling me I was a good reader. So I clung to traditional meanings very much. I now combine all I have learned and experienced with my intuition, continued studying but in a way that makes tarot more relevant to me and voila now I have more confidence with a pretty solid foundation

I loved that a deck existed that spoke in my language of fluidity within gender & sexuality, etc. I could go on & on about those things in life, and have that as my experience.

If it speaks your language then it is a deck for you. And I know what you mean I can go on forever about this deck too as you can see *LOL*.

But since I have barely any tarot experience... that seems to be what pulls me to feel like I need to know or apply the tarot traditions... when in reality while I am fascinated to learn those traditions for just the sake of learning -- when it comes to the readings, perhaps I should remember the very reasons & life experiences that pulled me to the deck to begin with & set the tradition aside.

Don't let the limited experience be a barrier for you, you will overcome that soon enough . I think you are on the right track and will be a good reader for it. Your life experiences shape your perspective in a reading. I do not advcate setting tradition aside completly as an understanding of it will help you as well. With this deck you will need to get versed in both the RWS and Thoth Traditions. The Major Arcana of this deck draws heavily from the Thoth but also blends in the RWS traditions. The court cards .... well those are as we have discussed dynamic, so learning both traditions here combined with your own perceptions will be your best guide to reading those.

Please note that I do not come online on weekends or evenings, so if I do not respond to your posts right away it is not that I have abandoned my commitment to study this deck with you

 

[DellArtista]

It is always a pleasure for me too to meet another CT lover ~grins~. This is the deck of my heart I honestly think, and was one that I had purchased simply for collectors reasons due to the 3 Lovers cards (I actully was 100% I would not like it, at least not for reading *LOL*). When I first opened the box and started looking at the cards they just reeled me in with the vibrant colors, sense of life force and energy, and well here I am 7 years or so later still loving the deck . I have not read with it much in the last couple of years (got distracted exploring other decks *LOL*), but I have been missing so I was very thrilled to see a study group post revived as it will give me a chance to spend lots of time with it again.

Very interesting to read your history with it! & I'm quite glad I posted to the group too... was a bit uncertain with the last posting date, but... here we are & all that jazz!

Just know that there is no right or wrong way to study the deck. The threads we posted here were just our ideas at the time. We can explore and talk about anything you like related to this deck. I doubt there will be too many people jumping into study this deck with us, so I am happy to work this study group any way you would like. What I would recommend is that you find the posts about the design elements of the deck. I think they set a critical foundation for how this deck works. I believe I started a thread on each design element based on the companion book information on them. Over time you will see that I am forever trying to organize the way I study *LOL*.

I will check out the index thread for the group & look for posts to revive. The design elements threads sound excellent!

There are a couple of us around here ~chuckles~. There are also some that strongly dislike this deck, which is fine by me too. When you explore the older threads you will find some of those strong feelings that were expressed then.

I haven't read those yet, but must do some searching later now, lol! I can definitely see why it would be a "love it or hate it" type of reaction. (I would eventually like to read for others, be it professionally or not. So far I only do so with a couple friends who quite love the deck too & on the forums here. I can see where this deck would not always be good for that considering those who don't care for it, I imagine, really don't care for it... I've been looking for decks that are similar to the CT in the way of being sort of progressive, but not quite as "out there"... I loved the Deviant Moon & decided to get it for that purpose. Of course, having the Deviant has made me realize that I might run into the same problem with that deck too! If you have any thoughts on decks that might fit this bill, I'd be very interested.

In terms of the CT being a great deck to work with regarding 21 Ways only time will tell. Since the minors are what I call "moody-minors" (not fully scenic like the RWS, but not plain pips like the Marseille type decks) I could see where they will be challenging to do some of the steps with. I do not mean this to discourage you, but if you are new to tarot you might actaully try 21 Ways out with a deck that has scenic minors. I am actually working wiht a minor card in doing this work, and it has proven interesting thus far. But again, I have already almost completed working with 21 Ways with a deck with scenic minors and have gained an understanding of the steps, and I have also been working with this deck for several years now. But if you decide to go for it, I will be happy to help out whenever or wherever I can.

I had been wondering if doing the 21 Ways with the Deviant might be easier for those reasons. (I first started with tarot last summer, and working/studying much more seriously for the past 5 months or so.)

I know starting my tarot focus with a deck that doesn't have the scenic minors is probably the harder way to go about it... I suppose on the flip side though, it may make other decks with plain pips or the "moody minors" seem easier now!

Which ones? I would love to explore this further.

This in response to which Knights cards seem to take on the traditional Queen characteristics for me --

The one which really stood out to me with this was the Knight of Disks, in particular when compared to the Queen of Disks. The traditional ideas of gender roles seem totally flipped with these two to me -- the Knight seems "passive," the Queen "active." The Knight seems to be waiting, the Queen seems to be making things happen. Knight of Disks seems "quiet" whilst the Queen of Disks seems "loud." Etc etc... this pair just really stood out to me as the most obvious switch for "Knight as Queen/Queen as King."

I also thought the same thing to quite a lesser degree with the Knight of Cups/Queen of Cups.

I completly undertand, after all these years it is pretty new to me! 21 Ways to read a Tarot card really helped me gain that confidence. I have almost completed all the work (not with the CT but another deck) and I really believe I am a much more confident and better reader than I was when I started. We can explore CT meanings, traditional, by the book, and intuitive. Now that my view point has changed on how I look at tarot cards I bet I will enjoy this deck even more than I always have and that is actully hard to believe possible! *LOL*.

That solidifies 21 Ways on my list! & I'd love to explore the CT with you & anyone else who may find us, thanks again for offering.

What is wierd is that is tradional in some aspects and not traditional in others. The courts are certainly more 21st century to me, and more dynamic. I think we can have a really good discussion regarding gender and the roles in the court in relation to this deck. It would be fun, and out of the box thinking in terms of tradition.

That's true, there's definitely those that do fit in their traditional dynamics... and actually, I don't mind that in this deck & love it in this deck -- I think due to the fact that there's those which do not easily conform into their usual boxes as well. (The reason why I can't seem to work with RWS without pitching a fit would be the lack of that! *lol*)

I think the keyword for this deck to me is fluidity -- especially in regard to gender, I find it quite genderfluid. To me it almost speaks in the way that it's not either/or, that there's more possibilities out there than the gender binary of male/female. I think the deck as a whole transcends that, and so then those that do fit the traditional or the "stereotypes" seem to just be a celebration of that energy/archetype to me.

(Oh dear, I hope I just made sense there somewhere! )

Don't let the limited experience be a barrier for you, you will overcome that soon enough . I think you are on the right track and will be a good reader for it. Your life experiences shape your perspective in a reading. I do not advcate setting tradition aside completly as an understanding of it will help you as well. With this deck you will need to get versed in both the RWS and Thoth Traditions. The Major Arcana of this deck draws heavily from the Thoth but also blends in the RWS traditions. The court cards .... well those are as we have discussed dynamic, so learning both traditions here combined with your own perceptions will be your best guide to reading those.

I really enjoyed reading how you have gone about your own tarot study over the years... thank you for sharing it.

I'm definitely too much into "book smarts" to ever let learning the traditions, etc. completely go. I have been wondering if I should ever purchase a Thoth deck or if looking at the images online/in books & reading/studying on it is enough. I look at the RWS images of the actual deck but don't actually read with it & prefer to use it as a point of study reference.

I do plan on actively reading with the Deviant, which I seem to see as quite a good pairing for the CT... but maybe I'm just off on my own trip & tastes there!

Please note that I do not come online on weekends or evenings, so if I do not respond to your posts right away it is not that I have abandoned my commitment to study this deck with you

Totally understand! My own time available for the Internet varies greatly... just so happens right now is quite an open one, lol!

 

[Jewel]

I can definitely see why it would be a "love it or hate it" type of reaction.

Yep that pretty much sums it up. I am yet to personally meet anyone that is completly neutral about this deck *LOL*.

(I would eventually like to read for others, be it professionally or not. So far I only do so with a couple friends who quite love the deck too & on the forums here.

I enjoy reading for others too (my friends and here on AT as part of the study groups I join, or for friends here that want me to read for them). I think it is because I want to read tarot so that I can help people work through whatever question they have and be able to view it from a different perspective. I really don't really read much for myself, though I do on occassion. I much prefer to read for others.

I can see where this deck would not always be good for that considering those who don't care for it, I imagine, really don't care for it... I've been looking for decks that are similar to the CT in the way of being sort of progressive, but not quite as "out there"... I loved the Deviant Moon & decided to get it for that purpose. Of course, having the Deviant has made me realize that I might run into the same problem with that deck too! If you have any thoughts on decks that might fit this bill, I'd be very interested.

~chuckles imagining a sweet older lady coming in for a reding and you poping out the CT~ Yeah, you might want to have at least one other choice of reading deck unless you choose to exclusively read for people you know and who do not care what deck you use *LOL*. I really like the Deviant Moon, and it reads VERY well. After having done a few readings with it I do not find the deck dark as many feel it is. It has given me some great readings and those I read for really liked the imagery. If you want a deck where the imagery will certainly not creep out or offend anyone then I would suggest the Fantastic Menagerie (FM) deck (get kit if you decide to go this way). The deck reads more like social commentary but like the CT is very direct. The FM is one of my main reading decks and one that has grown on me over time (I have been working with it for 2 years doing 21 Ways). There is quite a bit of satire in the deck which makes for fun readings too. Definetly a safe deck to read for anyone and brilliantly done as all Magic Realist Press decks are.

I had been wondering if doing the 21 Ways with the Deviant might be easier for those reasons.

The Deviant Moon would be excellent for 21 Ways. I would also recommend you join the study group here on 21 Ways, we do the Apprentice Steps first then go back and do the Adept level steps. Several of us are almost done with the Adept level, but we do follow the new posts at the Apprentice level and try to offer encouragement and when appropriate commentary or food for thought based on what we have learned in our journey. It is one of the best study groups I have ever been a part of.

I know starting my tarot focus with a deck that doesn't have the scenic minors is probably the harder way to go about it... I suppose on the flip side though, it may make other decks with plain pips or the "moody minors" seem easier now! .

I would disagree with you there. You will learn the minors in a more open manner, where as learning on a scenic deck really boxes your thoughts into a given image. What I have found most useful in workign with moody-minor decks, the CT is particular has been the use of number significance, color significance, and elemental correspondences. And yes, I do believe that in the long run it will make it easier for you to read with any type of deck you choose to read with. If the CT calls you, then that is the right deck for you to learn with.

This in response to which Knights cards seem to take on the traditional Queen characteristics for me --

The one which really stood out to me with this was the Knight of Disks, in particular when compared to the Queen of Disks. The traditional ideas of gender roles seem totally flipped with these two to me -- the Knight seems "passive," the Queen "active." The Knight seems to be waiting, the Queen seems to be making things happen. Knight of Disks seems "quiet" whilst the Queen of Disks seems "loud." Etc etc... this pair just really stood out to me as the most obvious switch for "Knight as Queen/Queen as King."

I also thought the same thing to quite a lesser degree with the Knight of Cups/Queen of Cups.

I do not have the deck with me but will pull these cards out. Maybe to start we should just look at the courts from each suit and discuss them that way. We can start with discussing the Disk Courts, then the Cup ones, etc. I will pull out the Disc courts this weekend and have a good look at them and share my thoughts with you.

That's true, there's definitely those that do fit in their traditional dynamics... and actually, I don't mind that in this deck & love it in this deck -- I think due to the fact that there's those which do not easily conform into their usual boxes as well. (The reason why I can't seem to work with RWS without pitching a fit would be the lack of that! *lol*).

Same here, it just feels right. Don't even get me started on the frustrations and turbulations I put myself through thinking I had to learn on a RWS deck ~rolls eyes~. I just do not connect with its imagery on any level. I keep a Radiant RW for reference purposes (the only variation of the deck that I can actually stand to spend any time with and I have tried many and given them all away *LOL*), or to follow a book I am reading (78 Degrees of Wisdom for example). But other than that it just sits on the shelf in its box.

I think the keyword for this deck to me is fluidity -- especially in regard to gender, I find it quite genderfluid. To me it almost speaks in the way that it's not either/or, that there's more possibilities out there than the gender binary of male/female. I think the deck as a whole transcends that, and so then those that do fit the traditional or the "stereotypes" seem to just be a celebration of that energy/archetype to me.

(Oh dear, I hope I just made sense there somewhere! )*)

Oh you did make sense! *LOL* What is great is that you have found your connection with the deck, that fluidity. For me it is the energy and "earthiness" of the deck. It is raw and natural (in a psychodelic sort of way *LOL*), yet bold. And I agree totally with you about the gender fluidity, I had never thought of it that way, but I really do agree with your view.

I really enjoyed reading how you have gone about your own tarot study over the years... thank you for sharing it.

Any time It has been trial and error all the way along, but an incredible journey. The one thing I always keep in mind is that learning tarot is a never ending journey, not a destination. There is always something new to learn and explore.

I'm definitely too much into "book smarts" to ever let learning the traditions, etc. completely go. I have been wondering if I should ever purchase a Thoth deck or if looking at the images online/in books & reading/studying on it is enough. I look at the RWS images of the actual deck but don't actually read with it & prefer to use it as a point of study reference.

Oh goody!!! you and I should get along fabulously studying together then I am also too much into "book smarts." So knowing that then I know you got what I meant by that *LOL*.

At this point I would not worry about getting the Thoth unless you really want to. I would say keep learning your CT on your own for a while, maybe a year or so from now, then go get the Thoth and start reading on that one *LOL* (the book by LonMilo Dequette is the one that has been the most clear to undertand for me). The Thoth is a deck that you could study until eternity *LOL*. I have two copies and all kinds of books and keep promising myself that I am going to dedicate a couple of years to it some time, but I have not gotten there though I have read up on it and have a large study copy and a regular sized one for whenever I decide to read with it *LOL*. I know it is a deck I will really want to sink my teeth into, just have not committed yet.

I do plan on actively reading with the Deviant, which I seem to see as quite a good pairing for the CT... but maybe I'm just off on my own trip & tastes there!

Well you find me criticizing your tastes as I love both of those decks. I do not read with many of my decks but those two are both decks I read with. I regularly read with about 5 or 6 of my decks these days. I read with the Robin Wood and Tarot of the Old Path for about 3 years, then the CT and Fey tarot. I read pretty much exclusively with the CT and Fey for about 3 years, then found the Magic Realist Press decks and found that I could read with them so I ended up adding the Victorian Romantic and Fantastic Menagerie to the regular reading decks, and most recently the Deviant Moon. On occassion I read with other decks, but these are the ones I use most regularly. What is cool though is that as I have built confidence I am starting to see that I can pretty much read with any deck I choose to read with (as long as it has at least moody-minors, I cannot read plain pip decks yet).

I'll see try to take a look at the Disk courts and post as soon as I can on them, might not be until next Monday, but will see what I can do

 

[DellArtista]

I enjoy reading for others too (my friends and here on AT as part of the study groups I join, or for friends here that want me to read for them). I think it is because I want to read tarot so that I can help people work through whatever question they have and be able to view it from a different perspective. I really don't really read much for myself, though I do on occassion. I much prefer to read for others.

That's exactly why my ultimate goal is to read for others more frequently -- being able to help them in that way. (& Plus, with self readings... I'm just no good at taking the advice, *lol*!)

~chuckles imagining a sweet older lady coming in for a reding and you poping out the CT~ Yeah, you might want to have at least one other choice of reading deck unless you choose to exclusively read for people you know and who do not care what deck you use *LOL*. I really like the Deviant Moon, and it reads VERY well. After having done a few readings with it I do not find the deck dark as many feel it is. It has given me some great readings and those I read for really liked the imagery. If you want a deck where the imagery will certainly not creep out or offend anyone then I would suggest the Fantastic Menagerie (FM) deck (get kit if you decide to go this way). The deck reads more like social commentary but like the CT is very direct. The FM is one of my main reading decks and one that has grown on me over time (I have been working with it for 2 years doing 21 Ways). There is quite a bit of satire in the deck which makes for fun readings too. Definetly a safe deck to read for anyone and brilliantly done as all Magic Realist Press decks are.

I'm glad to read that about the Deviant & hope that's how it turns out to work for me (haven't read with it officially yet)... I know personally, I find the Deviant quite whimsical & almost more light than dark due to the hints of humor throughout the deck. But I have looked up the FM & that does seem to be what I was thinking... a deck that wouldn't get me too caught up splitting hairs over traditional "stereotypes" etc, but would also be safe for any above-mentioned sweet conservative older ladies!

I am still just fascinated by the sheer amount of decks out there, and would love to discuss more about decks that might share some characteristics or some of the energy of the cosmic tribe.

(& The 21 Ways is definitely now going to the top of my tarot book list -- thanks!)

I would disagree with you there. You will learn the minors in a more open manner, where as learning on a scenic deck really boxes your thoughts into a given image. What I have found most useful in workign with moody-minor decks, the CT is particular has been the use of number significance, color significance, and elemental correspondences. And yes, I do believe that in the long run it will make it easier for you to read with any type of deck you choose to read with. If the CT calls you, then that is the right deck for you to learn with.

*nods* I think the thing is I still do find myself thinking of the traditional meanings for the scenic deck minors, so I might have been ignoring the symbology within those actual cards a bit. I will definitely be reviving the old threads on symbology & design elements, etc. because of that.

I do not have the deck with me but will pull these cards out. Maybe to start we should just look at the courts from each suit and discuss them that way. We can start with discussing the Disk Courts, then the Cup ones, etc. I will pull out the Disc courts this weekend and have a good look at them and share my thoughts with you.

This would be great! When I pulled out all the Court cards the other day when I first found this thread, and thought about the "Favorite courts/Least favorite courts" question -- I realized I felt I loved & knew all the Queens & Knights quite well, but was still puzzled over the Prince & Princess cards. I went through my journal & realized -- at least out of the readings I've saved -- I've never had a Prince card show in a spread, and a Princess only once... whilst the Queens/Knights were all over the place! Up until now, I've found that even if I study a card, I don't seem to truly "get" the card until it's in the context of a reading. But I think doing a study like this will remedy that.

I will gather my thoughts on the Disk courts as soon as I can for posting.

Oh you did make sense! *LOL* What is great is that you have found your connection with the deck, that fluidity. For me it is the energy and "earthiness" of the deck. It is raw and natural (in a psychodelic sort of way *LOL*), yet bold. And I agree totally with you about the gender fluidity, I had never thought of it that way, but I really do agree with your view.

The energy of the deck is something special indeed. For all its color & bold qualities, the grounded, Earthy feel really shines through. I think this all probably has a great deal to do with the pagan background of the deck.

Glad that it made sense... I've been known to go on too much about gender theory!

At this point I would not worry about getting the Thoth unless you really want to. I would say keep learning your CT on your own for a while, maybe a year or so from now, then go get the Thoth and start reading on that one *LOL* (the book by LonMilo Dequette is the one that has been the most clear to undertand for me). The Thoth is a deck that you could study until eternity *LOL*. I have two copies and all kinds of books and keep promising myself that I am going to dedicate a couple of years to it some time, but I have not gotten there though I have read up on it and have a large study copy and a regular sized one for whenever I decide to read with it *LOL*. I know it is a deck I will really want to sink my teeth into, just have not committed yet.

Yes, I think I am just fine reading with just the CT & Deviant for now, lol... it does seem to me -- just from the feel & study & reading I've done so far, of course I could be totally wrong! -- that although the CT follows both Thoth & RWS traditions, it seems like it's much more the Thoth than the RWS.

I'll see try to take a look at the Disk courts and post as soon as I can on them, might not be until next Monday, but will see what I can do

Sounds great... I can probably do my post on them Monday as well.

 

[Jewel]

Hey DellArtista, I did pull out the Disks this weekend but got all caught up and did not get a chance to really spend the time I wanted to with them so I am not ready to post on them yet. Hopefully sometime this week though as I really want to get this discussion going. I think we should open a separate thread on it that focuses on what we are doing with them. Perhaps something like: Cosmic Tribe: Court Card Roles by Suit or something like that.

I am really enjoying talking to you about the CT and other experiences. Please feel free to PM me and we can discuss other decks, 21 Ways, etc. via PM. Seems to me we share similar taste in decks and tarot interests, and I am really hoping you will delve into the whole gender thing as we discuss the courts because it is not something I have really thought much about so it would be a terrific learning opportunity for me!

Like you, I also find that I understand the meanings of cards much better when I have a context for them vs. when I just study one card at a time. I think we can work this study in a manner that addresses it. In the study of the courts for example we can study the courts in terms of their suit group and when we are done with that we can then look at all 4 Queens for example and look at similarities, differences, etc. Look at them in groupings which will help add context. I do not want to study each card individually. We can also do some comparison work between the CT and perhaps the RWS and Thoth to help us get more of a feel of which system it seems more influenced by (I agree with you though, I think Thoth *LOL*).

 

[DellArtista]

Hey DellArtista, I did pull out the Disks this weekend but got all caught up and did not get a chance to really spend the time I wanted to with them so I am not ready to post on them yet. Hopefully sometime this week though as I really want to get this discussion going. I think we should open a separate thread on it that focuses on what we are doing with them. Perhaps something like: Cosmic Tribe: Court Card Roles by Suit or something like that.

OK, That works for me. I have my basic thoughts worked out on the disks courts but still have to flesh the thoughts out a bit... I'll either make the post very soon with just the basics or wait until you're ready to post & by then I should have my thoughts more properly gathered. I started looking at the old CT threads & found a few I might revive as well if that's alright.

I am really enjoying talking to you about the CT and other experiences. Please feel free to PM me and we can discuss other decks, 21 Ways, etc. via PM. Seems to me we share similar taste in decks and tarot interests, and I am really hoping you will delve into the whole gender thing as we discuss the courts because it is not something I have really thought much about so it would be a terrific learning opportunity for me!

Thank you for the PM offer, I was afraid I was going too off-topic on this thread... *lol* I will do so!

In the study of the courts for example we can study the courts in terms of their suit group and when we are done with that we can then look at all 4 Queens for example and look at similarities, differences, etc. Look at them in groupings which will help add context. I do not want to study each card individually. We can also do some comparison work between the CT and perhaps the RWS and Thoth to help us get more of a feel of which system it seems more influenced by (I agree with you though, I think Thoth *LOL*).

Works for me! I noticed a couple threads up about particular single cards I might revive as I have a few specific ideas to bounce off on them, but other than that studying the cards in that group context instead of individually sounds perfect to me.

 

[Jewel]

OK, That works for me. I have my basic thoughts worked out on the disks courts but still have to flesh the thoughts out a bit... I'll either make the post very soon with just the basics or wait until you're ready to post & by then I should have my thoughts more properly gathered. I started looking at the old CT threads & found a few I might revive as well if that's alright.

Revive away! And if your thoughts are together before I post please do open the thread and start the discussion. I had a PM from someone else here on the Forum that has been watching our discussion here about the CT and I have my fingers crossed that they join us as this person has studied the Thoth and could add a lot to the discussion that I cannot.

Thank you for the PM offer, I was afraid I was going too off-topic on this thread.

Don't be so hasty in taking all the credit for going off topic *LOL* ... I have my share of responsibility in that as well as we keep discussing things I love talking about *LOL*.

Works for me! I noticed a couple threads up about particular single cards I might revive as I have a few specific ideas to bounce off on them, but other than that studying the cards in that group context instead of individually sounds perfect to me.

Excellent, then by all means revive them. I would love to read your thoughts, no point wasting existing threads if we find use for them *LOL*. As we have agreed this deck is fluid and organic, so I am trying to look at a way that we can study it that plays into that. In sum ... anything goes! *LOL*.

I think I will put some Pink Floyd on as background music for our studies