Curious deck from ca. 1600, described 1849

[Huck]

The following is from the "Gentleman's Magazine", 1849. It describes a fragmentarious Tarocchi deck consisting of 19 cards (13 pips, six trumps), which is estimated by the author of being ca. 2 1/2 centuries old, so would be from ca. 1600.
Well, if all this is true, than the trumps have curious numbers. Perhaps somebody has an idea about it.

http://books.google.com/books?id=CI...rr=1&ei=bY9NR6qAJ6OGpwK3l4DgAg#PRA33-PA493,M1

"These cards are nineteen in number: thirteen being of the ordinary suits, and six Tarocchi. They are considerably larger than our own cards, measuring 5 inches in length by 2 inc. in width. Of the suits there are:

Spade, 6, 9.

Coppe, 3.

Bastoni, 2, 3, 4,5, 6, 7, 8, 10.
The 2 and 3 bear the letters I. A. being the initials of the maker's name.

Danari, 6, 10.
These represent some of the real coins of the period, among others aim English rose-noble.

The six Tarocchi have their entire surface occupied by pictures, printed from wood blocks, and painted (by means of stencils) in various colours. They have no names inscribed; but, taking them in the order of the numeral's which they bear, the designs
may be thus specified:

L
Time or Saturn, carrying a naked man by the hair of his head over mountains. This may be supposed to be Le Pendu of the modern Tarocchi, in which the man is hung by one foot, a design of which Mr. Chatto gives no explanation, excepting some absurd conjectures of Mons. Court de Gebelin,which are not worth transcribing.

XIII
A winged and hoofed devil, marching in the attitude of an heraldic lion rampant. 11 Diavolo is one of
the usual modern Tarocehi.

XIIII
A naked figure walking over a mound, or figure of the world, which is banded and ensigned with a cross, (as in the regalia of emperor and kings.) She holds at her back a red sail; and at the side are clouds and various puffing heads rcpresenting the Winds. This is evidently meant for Fortune; which in the ancient French set attributed to Gringonneur is represented as “standing on a circle which represents the world, and holding a globe in one hand, and in the other a sceptre.” (Chatto, p. 197.) But in the modern Tarot the design adopted for this card is the old emblematic representation of the Wheel of Fortune, with four human figures, — the aspirant, the rising, the prosperous (on its summit), and the tailing.

XVIII
Justice, standing, a helmet on her head, a balance in her left hand. This emblematic figure occurs in the oldest Tarocchi, and is retained in the modern Tarot

XX
A stooping old man, with a long beard, walking with a staff as high as himself. This no doubt L'Hermite of the ancient Tarot, still represented by the Hermit, also called the Capuchin.

Such are the few Tarocchi of this hitherto undescribed pack which have been submitted to our notice; and, if we judge correctly of their antiquity, it is probably not less than two centuries and a half, possibly rather more. "

 

[mjhurst]

Hi, Huck,

An odd report. A woodcut deck with six surviving trumps and thirteen suit cards. The absence of names on the cards does suggest an early date. The stated numbering appears wholly uninformative... perhaps added to the cards at a later date by someone who knew virtually nothing about the deck?

The World card, with Fortune and her sail, and the Devil "rampant" are certainly familiar designs from other decks. That makes the report seem a bit more grounded in fact, despite the other peculiarities.

Then there is the count -- I only see five of the six trumps listed.

I -- Time or Saturn, carrying a naked man by the hair of his head over mountains. (My only guess for this is that the author of the article misinterpreted some variation on the "pandemonium" motif, shown in some "Lightning" cards. )

XIII -- The rampant Devil.

XIIII -- Fortune Triumphant over the World.

XVIII -- Justice, standing with a helmet.

XX -- The Old Man, with long beard and a staff as high as himself.

What is the sixth trump?

For examples of the Devil rampant, pandemonium, and Fortune Triumphant over the World motifs, check these two pages at Andy's Playing Cards:

The Franco-Belgium Pattern
http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards63.htm

The Tarot de Paris
http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards59.htm

 

[Huck]

I also wondered about the missing 6th trump.

Forgotten in the haste by the typist. Disappeared under the table. Not reflecting, that 150 years later somebody would become angry about it. Careless mankind ...

I could imagine, that it is a Mitelli deck. Mitelli often made strange numbered compositions.
In one of his compositions he included 24 figures (? hour pictures ?) between allegories of time and death.
As we've again a possible allegory "time" at the beginning ...(= Nr. I ... you're right, I first read "L")

http://www.istitutodatini.it/biblio/images/it/casanat/r1-15a/htm/elenco.htm
http://trionfi.com/m/d0yyyy.php?decknr=1865

 

[mjhurst]

The English Rose-Noble Coin

Danari, 6, 10. These represent some of the real coins of the period, among others an English rose-noble.

The rose-noble was an old English gold coin, stamped with the impression of a rose. They were first coined in the reign of Edward III, and were current at 6s 8d. They were also coined by Edward IV of the value 8s 4d.
(Probert Encyclopedia)

 

[Huck]

Edward III. seems to be "much too early" (before 1377)

Edward IV (- 1483) also.

... or we've to conclude a 15th century deck ... which sounds rather unlikely.

 

[mjhurst]

Hi, Huck,

Edward III. seems to be "much too early" (before 1377) Edward IV (- 1483) also. ... or we've to conclude a 15th century deck ... which sounds rather unlikely.

The quote says that's when they were FIRST coined, not when they were last coined or when they went out of circulation.

Edward III - Another Try
In 1344, Edward III introduced a new series of gold coins in imitation of the gold coins produced by Venice, Florence and other leading European cities. These were called florins or double leopards, half florins or leopards, quarter florins or helms. This first issue was not a success, mainly because they were overtariffed, and was soon replaced by another new series.

The Noble was introduced shortly after, with a value of 6 shillings and 8 pence. Although this sounds odd, it was one third of a pound, and equal to half a mark. Pounds and marks were both units of account rather than actual coin denominations. Effectively this assumed a gold silver ratio of 11.04 to 1, which must have been about right at the time because this new denomination was to endure for over a century until 1465.

Angels Appear
The Angel replaced the Noble in 1465 under Edward IV at the same value of six shillings and eight pence, and were to continue in use until 1642.

Ryals or Rose Nobles
At the same time as the angel was introduced under Edward IV, the Ryal or Rose Noble valued at ten shillings was also introduced. These two changes had the effect of unifying the two systems of account prevailing at the time, although the ryal dropped out of use slightly earlier, in 1600.

The ryal shown in our photographs has a crown mintmark, and was therefore issued in 1466 or 1467.

Gold Sovereigns
http://www.goldsovereigns.co.uk/goldpenniesflorinsleopardsnoblesryalsangels.html

So, if they went out of circulation around 1600, that would fit neatly with the author's guess at the age of the deck. There are more troublesome concerns with this report. First, who is the author, and does he know what he's talking about? He seems, from our perspective, not very knowledgeable about Tarot, so his knowledge of old coins might also be suspect.

Second, even numismatists today often use terms like "rose noble" in a somewhat casual manner, sometimes narrowly and at other time quite broadly. Third, what exactly was represented on those cards? His descriptions of the trump cards are not great, making his coin description suspect. Most printed/stenciled cards look like crap, more or less. This author is telling us that the pip cards were so clearly detailed that you could recognize various coins of the period. That is pretty cool, if true. On the other hand, perhaps he simply saw a rose design on the coins and interpreted it as a rose noble.

The main question, of course, is whether these cards are something that is known under some other, perhaps better description, or if perhaps this is the sole description ever published and they have since been lost.

 

[DoctorArcanus]

I could imagine, that it is a Mitelli deck. Mitelli often made strange numbered compositions.

If the cards were wood engraved and painted with stencils, I don't think they can be by Mitelli. But some of the images in the trumps described do make me think of Bologna.

Marco

 

[mjhurst]

The Belgium Tradition

Hi, Marco,

I was thinking more of the Belgium decks, or, more specifically, a precursor to those we know -- given that it lacked names... something roughly contemporaneous with Vievil. Because two of the images, as described, are quite odd (Justice with a helmet and an Old Man dragging someone over a mountain) I'm going to assume that the cards he saw were worn, and some details were unclear on those two cards, just as I'm ignoring his numbering as uninformative. (Naturally, if someone has an explanation which makes sense of those descriptions or numbering, so much the better!)

I -- Time or Saturn, carrying a naked man by the hair of his head over mountains.

XIII -- The rampant Devil.

XIIII -- Fortune Triumphant over the World.

XVIII -- Justice, standing with a helmet.

XX -- The Old Man, with long beard and a staff as high as himself.

Better illustrations could probably be found from other decks in this tradition, but these are examples of some known designs, from a single tradition, that could explain his unusual account.

Is anyone familiar with the suit cards of some decks in this family of patterns? He stated that on the Bastoni, the 2 and 3 bear the letters I. A. being the initials of the maker's name, and that on the Danari, the 6 and 10 show representatives of some of the real coins of the period. Does that sound familiar?

P.S. I just opened up Kaplan to the page on the so-called Parisian Tarot and he has an illustration of the Four of Coins, which does indeed have four different and detailed "coins". (K:II 310) Here's a scan.

 

[mjhurst]

What an idiot...

The first thing I posted was a link to Andy's Parisian Tarot page, because of the similarities in some of the trump cards, but did I really look at his page? Nooooo.

He has a color image of the Four of Coins.

The Tarot de Paris
http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards59.htm

 

[le pendu]

Some random thoughts while reading the article...

Page 491

From a passage from Raphael Volaterranus (R. Maphei Volaterrani Commentaria Urbana, 1506) it would appear that Tarocchi cards, properly so called, were not invented till towards the close of the fifteenth century.

Interesting if a source from 1506 was suggesting that the cards weren't invented until the late 1400s.

The
other Atous are numbered and named as
follows:
2. Juno
4. Jupiter
9. The Capuchin, called also the Hermit.
21, The End of the World

So a Besançon deck is suggested by 2 and 4. Capuchin is just an English/Irish order I gather. "End" of the world, interesting.

Of these the first five are called Petit. Atous, and the last five grands atous

Is this common?

Page 493

Time or Saturn, carrying a naked man by the hair of his head over
mountains. This may be supposed to be Le Pendu of the modern Tarocchi,
in which the man is hung by one foot, a design of which Mr. Chatto gives no explanation, excepting some absurd conjectures of Mons. Court de Gebelin,
which are not worth transcribing.

Well!
This is really odd isn't it!? It does sound like the Devil dragging away a man to Hell, similar to the Paris. Time? Saturn? Hmm.

--

Overall, I think it DOES sound like this guy is pretty reliable. He doesn't seem at all interested in inventing or adding.

The numbers are certainly VERY strange. What could account for this?

Good job collecting several of these images together Michael. Very interesting deck this must have been, and what a shame that it seems to have disappeared! If it is a deck from the 1600s, then it would be yet another "unique" deck of the period. Considering the Vieville, Noblet, Paris, (and further back the Geoffroy), it certainly seems that there as a lot of variety at this stage of Tarot development.

Dummett mentions 4 decks remaining from the 1600s. Vieville, Noblet, Paris... what is the fourth?