Differences/similarity's between the Thoth- and the Golden dawn tarot?

[Dryope]

I was just wondering if anyone here has tried out the golden dawn tarot deck by Israel Regardie...
Since both of these decks are based on the Golden dawn tradition I was wondering if they are similar in some ways or totally different?

Could it be interesting to try out the Golden dawn deck to get a greater understanding of the Thoth tarot?
Offcourse there will be differences like the Tzaddi <-> Heh swap, the renaming of some of the cards by Crowley and the Thoth tarot will offcourse have a lot of Thelematic influences as well, but they both originated from the same source in a way, Crowley used a lot of knowledge that he gained from the Golden dawn and then added his own ideas/knowledge to invent a new tarot, so I'm curious in which way these two decks relate to each other.

 

[Zephyros]

They should be quite similar, as are the Thoth and the RWS, they seem so different. In fact, in some wyas the Thoth is even more Golden Dawn-ish than the RWS. The thing with the Thoth is that it gives even more, so if you are versed in the Thoth, the Golden Dawn should be familiar.

I found that in my studies of the Thoth, other decks opened up to me, I began to notice things I never had before, because of the Golden Dawn background the Thoth gives you.

 

[Always Wondering]

I never did get this. Everything I've read about the Golden Dawn leads me to believe it is Christian based. Waite was a Christian mystic according to Wiki.

If this is the case I don't see how the Thoth could be more Golden Dawn than the RW. I would think you could interchange the two. But I think that is more because the principles of Thelema, on a basic level, work very nice with many religions.

Reguardie often used the Lord's Prayer in conjuction with ritual. I guess I just assumed he was more of a Christian mystic. It gets tricky for me in the details, when they start substituting gods. That's doens't seem very Christian.

AW

 

[Dryope]

Hmm, I once read that the Golden dawn originated from roisicruxian tradition... so that would explain the Christian influences... also at the time that the Golden dawn was founded Christianity offcourse was the leading religion in the western countries, people were raised with Christian ideas, these ideas were interwoven in society and in every day life, I guess that's something you don't just put aside easily... even Crowley who was brought up in a strictly Christian way did not put these ideas aside entireley, although he did rebel against them.

Though in a way it puts me off (not because I have something against Christianity, but just because I don't believe in the Christian ideas about god etc.), on the other hand I think this is quite intriguing (from a historical point of view).
I just found this website wich contains some interesting info, o.a. this Hermetic and Rosicrucian Timeline, maybe this is interesting if you want to get to know more about the backgrounds of how the Golden dawn came to be and about what the members believe (and why)...

http://golden-dawn.info/Timeline.html

 

[Zephyros]

I`m secularly Jewish, znd find the Golden Dawn fascinating, if it calms your mind

Think of it as less strictly Christian, and more philosophical, or Kabbalistic. You don`t have to believe in either Christianity or Thelema to get either, but keep an open mind; both have kernels of interesting ideas.

 

[Aeon418]

Though in a way it puts me off (not because I have something against Christianity, but just because I don't believe in the Christian ideas about god etc.), on the other hand I think this is quite intriguing (from a historical point of view).

The Golden Dawn expressed it's inner teachings through the symbols and language of Christianity. They used this symbol set as a kind of delivery system to convey and impart knowledge that would otherwise have been hard to grasp. Essentially the abstract and universal has to be "dressed up" to make it understandable.

The Thoth Tarot is a conduit for the same "Universal Wisdom" or Perennial philosophy, except the delivery system has been updated to better convey it's Truth to a more evolved and sophisticated humanity. It's not that the old way was bad, it's just that it has outlived it's usefullness. If you want a crude analogy think of he way that sex education is taught to children. At the younger age range the teaching is very general and non-specific. But as they grow into teenagers they require more detailed information. Continuing to treat young adults like little children is counter productive.

This quote from page 24 of the Book of Thoth might be useful.

From the foregoing it will be clear that the Tarot illustrates, first of all, the Tree of Life in its universal aspect, and secondly, the particular comment illustrating that phase of the Tree of Life which is of peculiar interest to those persons charged with the guardianship of the human race at the particular moment of the production of any given authorised pack. It is therefore proper for those guardians to modify the aspect of the pack when it seems to them good to do so.

 

[Richard]

I never did get this. Everything I've read about the Golden Dawn leads me to believe it is Christian based. Waite was a Christian mystic according to Wiki.

If this is the case I don't see how the Thoth could be more Golden Dawn than the RW. I would think you could interchange the two. But I think that is more because the principles of Thelema, on a basic level, work very nice with many religions.

Reguardie often used the Lord's Prayer in conjuction with ritual. I guess I just assumed he was more of a Christian mystic. It gets tricky for me in the details, when they start substituting gods. That's doens't seem very Christian.

AW

Waite was a Gnostic. There are roughly three types of Christians: Conservative, Liberal, and Maverick. I'm a Maverick; so was Waite. According to the Conservatives, all Mavericks are going to Hell. According to the Liberals, Mavericks are rogues or crackpots.

 

[Cassandra022]

Interesting question...I have both of these. Still planning on getting a PCS version of the RWS at some point in the nearish future...when I do I think I might do a close comparative study of the three...perhaps a project for the summer when I won't have grad classes and thus will have time, lol

 

[Zezina]

I found that in my studies of the Thoth, other decks opened up to me, I began to notice things I never had before, because of the Golden Dawn background the Thoth gives you.

I'm not far into my Thoth studies, but I'm already finding this too.

*Z*

 

[Zezina]

If this is the case I don't see how the Thoth could be more Golden Dawn than the RW. I would think you could interchange the two. But I think that is more because the principles of Thelema, on a basic level, work very nice with many religions.
AW

I find Thoth to be more Golden Dawn than RWS is because Crowley uses more attributions from the Golden Dawn in his deck, even if he re-orders them as in Tzaddi/Heh, and messes with them for goodness knows what reason, like Kings/Knights.

Crowley manages to get more GD symbolism across to me in his cards than I feel RWS did.

*Z*