Elemental Weapons, the Aces, and Magick

Grigori

I'm wondering about how the 4 Elemental Weapons were seen by Crowley compared to the version in the Golden Dawn. Reading Crowley's chapters from Liber ABA on the magical tools, he seems quite distinctly different to the GD and the tarot even.

The GD from my readings seem to have a strong focus on the elemental associations of the 4 tools, and regard them as a very different thing than other tools. For example the Fire Wand is quite specific to Fire workings, and not be confused with the more general purpose Wand that is a tool to manipulate more personal energy (rather than elemental). Similarly the Air Dagger is a very different thing to the Sword which is Martial/Geburah, and again different to the general purpose dagger (I won't use the "A" word as I know how it rankles Ravenest

).

Crowley however seems to treat these things as identical quite happily. He discussed (and in the famous picture is seen with) a Solomonic style sword (which is also used to illustrate the Ace of Swords), but no dagger or Air dagger. A wand, and no specific Fire tool. He seems to be using a reproduction of the Stele of Revealing as a Pantacle and is more concerned with his cup representing Understanding than water.

So, um, what gives? Any thoughts folks?

Aeon418

Grigori said:
I'm wondering about how the 4 Elemental Weapons were seen by Crowley compared to the version in the Golden Dawn. Reading Crowley's chapters from Liber ABA on the magical tools, he seems quite distinctly different to the GD and the tarot even.

Crowley saw the 4 elemental weapons in exactly the same way as the Golden Dawn did. See Liber A vel Armorum. http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib412.html

The descriptions in Liber ABA are from a different and higher angle. Crowley spells it out very clearly in the opening remarks on the Sword, chapter VIII.

As the Wand is Chokmah, the Will, "the Father," and the Cup the Understanding, "the Mother," Binah; so the Magick Sword is the Reason, "the Son," the six Sephiroth of the Ruach, and we shall see that the Pantacle corresponds to Malkuth, "the Daughter."

The elemental weapons are like lower analogues of these weapons. They represent aspects of the lower self, the personality, the microcosm. The weapons described in Liber ABA are more macrocosmic. So for example when Crowley starts talking about the Cup and Understanding, he is really talking about the Cup of Babalon - Binah. In contrast the elemental water cup of Hod is a lower reflection at the microcosmic level.

As above, so below.

ravenest

Rankles!

Caw CAAAW! (smooths his feathers)

What I like about the Abba description is by thine own ingenium. Imagine what one would learn if one DID mine the ore, smelt the metal, quench it, hammer it one the anvil, push air into the fire, and so on - Fire air earth water : furnace bellows anvil/hammer quench. Alchemical fun circulating around the circle. What type of wood will you make your wand from, well then you will have to learn about trees and their planetary and cosmic connections and ... and ....

Aeons right. I myself have many magical weapons ... why ... elemental formulas and devisions still carry on through various planes of workings, some are a bit interchangible, some not.

Did that make sense ( ... do I ever make sense?)

Grigori

Aeon418 said:
Crowley saw the 4 elemental weapons in exactly the same way as the Golden Dawn did. See Liber A vel Armorum. http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib412.html

You may need to break this one down for me Aeon, I don't see anything in that article that seems similar to my understanding of the GD's 4 elemental weapons. They seem much more like Crowley's description in Liber ABA.

The elemental weapons are like lower analogues of these weapons. They represent aspects of the lower self, the personality, the microcosm.

It's interesting looking at the Ace of Swords thinking of the weapons in this way. Despite being very much attributed to Air the illustration is clearly a Solomonic sword, and in the background the Sun of Tipareth. Seems much more like the airy Tipareth, rather than the airy quarter of Malkuth which is more like what I had in my mind for the Aces. My understanding is that the GD would see a Solomonic sword as Geburah rather than Tipareth?... Am I off on that?

Either way, I s'pose its just another type of Vau

I like the Crowley version better I think

I made the GD tools and it was a great exercise, I learnt some new art skills, got very much better at writing Hebrew and now can sound out a good few Hebrew words and god-names. But to tell the truth I never use them now, they are just decorative. Bet I'd learn a lot if I go smelt me some ore :laugh:

Aeon418

Grigori said:
You may need to break this one down for me Aeon, I don't see anything in that article that seems similar to my understanding of the GD's 4 elemental weapons. They seem much more like Crowley's description in Liber ABA.

Are you refering to the superficial appearance of the weapons?

Look at the grade where each of the weapons is constructed.

The Neophyte (Malkuth/Earth) makes the Pantacle.
The Zelator (Yesod/Air) makes the Dagger.
The Practicus (Hod/Water) makes the Cup.
The Philosophus (Netzach/Fire) makes the Wand.

Grigori said:
My understanding is that the GD would see a Solomonic sword as Geburah rather than Tipareth?... Am I off on that?

But which way is the sword pointing? That's important. Look at Atu VIII. Same sword, different function/direction.

Back to Liber ABA:

In all dealings with demons the point of the Sword is kept downwards, and it should not be used for invocation, as is taught in certain schools of magick.
If the Sword is raised towards the Crown, it is no longer really a sword. The Crown cannot be divided. Certainly the Sword should not be lifted.
The Sword may, however, be clasped in both hands, and kept steady and erect, symbolizing that thought has become one with the single aspiration, and burnt up like a flame. This flame is the Shin, the Ruach Alhim, not the mere Ruach Adam. The divine and not the human consciousness.

The Magician cannot wield the Sword unless the Crown is on his head.

Those Magicians, who have attempted to make the Sword the sole or even the principal weapon, have only destroyed themselves, not by the destruction of combination, but by the destruction of division.

Grigori

Aeon418 said:
Are you refering to the superficial appearance of the weapons?

Not specifically, though the appearance is very different to the GD 4.

Look at the grade where each of the weapons is constructed.

The Neophyte (Malkuth/Earth) makes the Pantacle.
The Zelator (Yesod/Air) makes the Dagger.
The Practicus (Hod/Water) makes the Cup.
The Philosophus (Netzach/Fire) makes the Wand.

Yeah I spotted that, I think maybe the difference is one of terminology. The GD's Fire Wand is seen as fitting Philosophus by the GD, but my understanding is the AA will relate it to the Fire aspect of Malkuth. I'm not sure but I think the argument is that the portal grade of the GD is equivalent of leaving Malkuth in the AA....? I guess I'm trying to draw parallels that don't really exist, in the end the tools are symbols of YHVH and there are a few different versions of that in the Tree/trees/forest of Life

But which way is the sword pointing? That's important. Look at Atu VIII. Same sword, different function/direction.

Ah, nifty thanks

ravenest

Alchemical circulation.

What to do with those old GD weapons? Now there's a bother.

Stick em in your magick lockup and they will eventually get used. One day you might want to do some type of ritual and they will be there. Another time you might want to do a different type of ritual and use a stone, a dried coconut shell, a feather, etc.

Check out AC's portible magick stuff for travelling. In one sense, the whole temple should be able to be packed up and fit in two camel saddle bags.

IMO the only reason to get SOOOOOOOO 'anal' (?) about those specific GD weapons and their meaning and application is an exercise in that specific area, (and I have done it - quiet valuible, as usuall I learnt a lot and learnt a lot more than I expected about things I didnt think would be related) just like the mining of ore and the casting of metal would be .... or producing bulk delicious tofu.

Grigori

ravenest said:
Check out AC's portible magick stuff for travelling. In one sense, the whole temple should be able to be packed up and fit in two camel saddle bags.

Well that is easy, but not sure where I'll store my camel

Where do you find the portable magick stuff?

IMO the only reason to get SOOOOOOOO 'anal' (?) about those specific GD weapons and their meaning and application is an exercise in that specific area,

And cause its interesting

ravenest

Grigori said:
Where do you find the portable magick stuff?

You make it - by thine own ingenium

Grigori

ravenest said:
You make it - by thine own ingenium

Oops, I thought you meant Crowley had written something specific on portable magick, I was curious about the reference.