Emperor vs. Hierophant

[Trogon]

Okay ... this isn't actually a WWE cage match-up (though, that might be quite an interesting match ). But rather, something I just read in Rachel Pollack's "Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom" prompted me to post. I am studying the Hierophant ... in her section The Hierophant Ms. Pollack says;

"The Emperor symbolized the rules themselves and their official enforcers; The Hierophant indicates our own inner sense of obedience."

However, as I was writing out my thoughts on The Hierophant, it occurred to me that, in the extreme, this card represents religious zealotry and as such, the enforcers of some of the extreme elements/sects of a given religion. An example which came to mind were the "Danites" of the old Mormon groups. These were, supposedly, their warriors and, in some cases, enforcers of their doctrines.

But, when I think of the Emperor, I think more strictly of secular society. The laws that govern us regardless of our spiritual/religious following, and the enforcers of those laws (the police, FBI, CIA, etc.). Granted, in some societies or cultures, there may be little difference between their government and their religion. And sometimes those can become very extremist cultures who's enforcers are just as extreme.

I guess my question is this; would the "enforcers" of a religious group fall under The Hierophant, or would they fall under The Emperor?

I don't suppose that Rachel Pollack actually hangs around in these forums?

[edited to fix typo. ]

 

[Stormdancer]

I guess my question is this; would the "enforcers" of a religious group fall under The Hierophant, or would they fall under The Emperor?

Thanks for a fascinating question! I think the "enforcers" you mention fall into the Emperor from my point of view. The Hierophant is more THE spiritual teacher...probably not concerned with "the Enforcers". The Hierophant....is able to translate the spiritual realms for the masses....

Oh, I don't like how that sounds.

Anyway, the enforcers have nothing to do with the Hierophant, IMHO.

 

[Zechariah13]

hmm, never read Pollack before.

But i do have another way of looking at this. I tend to reject most instances in which a tarot card, particularly a major, is said to represent one specific set of material things. And i tend to get in trouble for my blanket rejections so i will avoid that subject all together, but here is an idea.

The Hierophant is Fixed Earth. the Most refined form of material and Structure.
The Emperor is Cardinal Fire. The most primal aspect of Desire and Will.

The Hierophant represents boundaries and structures. Hence why he describes religion, which places boundaries and structures around both the visible and invisible areas of our lives.

The Emperor represents the primal Aries drive, to assert one's dominance over their world. HEre we see order, control, dominion, but mostly over the more material things, as the invisible and spiritual are beyond his reach

So, HOW does this apply to the question? Well, BOTH could represent the enforcers of a religious group, depending on how they function.

If they execute and exert physical dominance to scare people into submission, they are the Emperor flexing his muscles and weilding his sword, making displays of power

If they work smear campaigns, slandering and maligning their opponents to turn the crowds against them, then they are closer to the Hierophant, sturcturing and controlling the growth of a culture

Just my two pentacles, hope that helps

 

[GryffinSong]

And two more pentacles here...

There are so very many ways to interpret the cards. I think if this idea came up for you, that heirophant was religious enforcer and emperor was secular enforcer, then that should go into your list of potential interpretations. It doesn't mean they'll always mean that, but they could.

 

[Trogon]

Thanks Zechariah13, that actually helped a lot. I especially liked the differences you pointed out in the types of enforcement. As I was contemplating the possible interpretations of The Hierophant, the smear tactics used in political campaigns in recent years - well, actually since the invention of politics I'm sure - came to mind. Especially when "religious leaders" take part in the political smearing and mudslinging.

Gryffinsong; That's a very valid point. And one which I suspect will be true. Since I've written these thoughts down in my notes, they are probably stuck in my mind now. But, I'll just have to wait and see how they end up coming up in readings.

Stormdancer; Your observation sounded just fine to me. And actually, that thought is what prompted the question! Thanks!

 

[Jes]

if it helps, in the Legacy of Divine deck, (actually I think all of Ciro's work) the Heriophant is actually called Faith, and in the Old Path deck it is called the Wise one.

maybe these lend ideas to you to back up your ideas. they are just two examples where the card name has been changed to reflect the creator's ideas on the card meanings... if you get my drift. to me these names suggest more the religious side of things. which would mean the emperor is more the law enforcement type..