Extraterrestrial Readings: What deck do you pick? And what questions would they ask?

Satori

Umbrae said:
"Has my Vapoid Kongrunen been faithful? Should I return before I left?"

How many times do I need to tell you that we don't Do the space/time continuum questions here?

If you want those kinds of questions answered you need a reader from Las Vegas, Ok? And they won't tell you either because, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.
 

WolfSpirit

Elf what a fun question, how do you come up with questions like that ?

I would use the Tarot of the Spirit - it is earthy but at the same time otherworldly so it just may work...
but I am also thinking a Marseilles deck, just a feeling don't know why - maybe because I always feel it is very earthy and therefor a good balance.
 

Lain_82

I would use the Thoth but its probably because I'm falling in love with it.....

and the question could be something like:

ad"##$"# $%&S/[&] trhjweri324kh***.:cool3:;)
 

Umbrae

On a serious note – you never know when you might end up reading for Klaatu. And I think something like a Future Solleone may convey the wrong (or completely correct) view of humanity, you may find yourself in an uncomfortable position.

Thoth is too astrological – thus he’d never take the reading seriously…

What ‘sign’ is Spock? Or Klaatu? What sign is River Tam? …all of astrology is based on a Geocentric point of view (and we ARE Heliocentric)…

As man moves out into the blackness between the stars….

Constellations vanish with perspective. They are all relative to a point of view. Retrograde motion is fine in a geocentric model, but we soon discover it’s an optical illusion…

Astrological houses vanish, out there in the blackness between the stars….

10 planets? what a joke...used to be 7. That was considered a ‘truth’.

A Cosmic Truth should remain true, no matter where in the cosmos you may find yourself.

Tarot works…Mathematics still works…out in the blackness between the stars….

…And the whole human concept of time goes out the window when you no longer have 60 minute hours, 24 hours a day; when weeks, months, and years no longer exist.

365 rotational divisions of an orbit of some 3’rd Rock from some Sun…meaningless if you are no longer on that rock…

Numerology gets wonky when you realize the calendar is not the same as ‘time’.

The Julian calendar was used and accepted by Europeans after the heyday of the Roman Empire. They dickered around about when Christ was born (using that event as a starting point) moving the date forwards and backwards; and the equinox kept falling behind (on the calendar) one full day every 130 years.

By the 1500’s, the spring equinox was all the way back to early March. This was a dreadful situation…I mean…How can we celebrate Easter without ‘knowing’ when?

So Pope Gregory XIII mandated a working calendar in 1582…he ordered ten days to be dropped from the calendar…so that the vernal equinox fell on March 20th, as it had been during the time of the Council of Nicea … Also “New Years” was moved from March 31st, to January 1st. Leap years were added (Note: these 'dates' are by papal decree - not cosmic truths).

Most European nations adopted the Gregorian reform, with the exception of England and its Colonies, which held out until 1752. At that time, 11 days had to be cut from their calendar.

Around 1614, Johannes Kepler decided to (Kepler proved much of Tycho Brahe’s work to be archaic, Newton did the same to Keplar, who in turn was refuted by Leverrier, and everyone fell to Einstein) place Christ’s birth at 4 B.C.E..

Cuz here’s the nut…!

What is Calendar Numerology based on?

It all figures on the birth date of old J.C. being accurate. Now that was figured out in 1614 by Kepler…and if you aren’t hip to the Council of Nicia…you really do need to check it out. Do a Google on the Nestorians.

Where is the all going?

I mean seriously…the current Gregorian calendar was based upon Ecclesiastical convenience – not fact. And if it was ‘agreed’ that JC was born in 4 B.C. then all numerological studies would be off by five digits (since the year 0 is not counted - hold that thought). Further you cannot use the Gregorian Calendar when reading for a person who arranges their life around the Jewish Calendar. Or the Chinese. Or the Indian…

Further - you cannot apply modern numerology to names of all peoples (like the Sung).

But properly applied, numerology does and can remain a constant, like the Tarot.

What if I am the one picked up and have to read for the aliens on a different planet? What deck did you have on you? What deck do you choose when you go out to buy that carton of milk? (6 months later it’s your picture on the milk carton – and what do you know, it was like ‘Zap’ and car an all are on the other side of the galaxy!)

I want a deck I can read with.

I also want a deck where I can demonstrate and/or teach everything from basic to higher mathematics using various non-arbitrary sequences.
A deck where I can teach the concepts of an Alphabetic sequence to enhance the exchange of data. A deck where I can teach the concepts of social order, ideals amoungts our collective peoples, Neo-Platonic principals and philosophies…

Of couse I also want GPS…

I think it’d be cool if we could move from Astrology to astronomy – to keeping a map…this is where we were.

“This is how we saw our night sky’s…”

Current approaches to astrology utilize the erroneous Ptolemaic/Geocentric view of the cosmos. It demonstrates how we perceive the illusions of the night sky, as opposed to providing an accurate ‘location’.

In terms of the zodiacal sign correlations, one needs to determine whether what is correlated is in part the set of stars as they are in the sky, or the tropical zodiac (the two coincided only over 2000 years ago).”

I can use the minor arcana to explain base ten notations… The minor arcana helps me explain a linear progression of 1,2,3,4 in Base Ten.

But I can also discuss different types of ‘counting’ where the underlying dynamic is wholly different. In the "Phi Count", 1 proceeds to 2, and then the 2 and the 1, together (2+1), proceed to 3. This 3 is not merely the result of 2 moving past 1. This 3 is the result of the 2 moving with the 1. Thus "the Three that are Two." In this dynamic the 3 does not necessarily proceed to 4, as is the given point of assumption in the Simple Count.

In this order the number arrived at always "takes into a count" (pun intended) the number which preceded it. Thus that 3 which is (2+1)
"takes into a count" the number 2. The next number then, in this new way of counting, is (3+2) or 5.

And it ends with 20 cards. It only takes 20 cards to lay out the beginnings of a language. The language of mathematics.

But why would I want to do this?

Phi (1.6180)

Phi is a geometric constant.

Phi is called the ‘golden mean’ (golden ratio), and is the root of the golden section. It is the divine proportion.

Phi was used in the Great Pyramids in Giza. Some state that it was to mirror the logarithmic spiral of the belt and body of Orion…

A problem in the third section of Liber abaci (Book of the Abacus – 1202 – we’ll chat about it again before we’re through) by Leonardo of Pisa, (or better known as Leonardo Fibonacci) led to the introduction of the what are now called Fibonacci numbers and the Fibonacci sequence for which he is best remembered today:- A certain man put a pair of rabbits in a place surrounded on all sides by a wall. How many pairs of rabbits can be produced from that pair in a year if it is supposed that every month each pair begets a new pair which from the second month on becomes productive?

The resulting sequence is 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, ...

The Fibonacci sequence, and Fibonacci numbers are used to track movements in the financial markets, or anticipate crowd behavior.

The ratios describing relationships within the human body, Bones – demonstrate Phi.

The DNA molecule…the double helix… is based on the golden section. It measures 34 angstroms long by 21 angstroms wide for each full cycle of its double helix spiral, and their ratio, 1.619 closely approximates phi, 1.6180.

A cross-section view from looking down at the top of the DNA double helix forms a decagon (see the back of a Voyager Deck), so each spiral of the double helix will trace out the shape of a pentagon (think on that one for a bit).

The universe, from the logarithmic spiral of a, immense galaxy’s arm – to the tiny DNA molecule, is constructed using phi. It’s the stuff of life itself).

Western culture has found Golden Ratio proportioned shapes, and is still used in art and design, suggesting a natural balance between symmetry and asymmetry.

The ancient Pythagoreans, who defined numbers as expressions of ratios, believed that reality is numerical and that the golden ratio expressed an underlying truth about existence

I can begin to communicate, using tarot as a mathematical demonstrator…I’d best be very careful about my choice of decks…

Do I want a deck with a Zero?

Without a Zero I can explain different types of counting, different styles of numbers, the ordinal and the cardinal.

With a Zero on the Fool – we have a Zeroth sequence, without – we could have either.

The Glyph that we refer to as Zero, and the concept of the Zero and the place holder (that we use the glyph for) are three different things.

Early Babylonians used a place holder, but ‘zero’ was not used in calculations.

The Greeks did not adapt the Babylonian number system, and had no positional number system. Greek mathematical advances were essetally based on Euclid’s “Elements”…it’s all based on geometry. BTW – there is no 0 degree angle.

Greek astronomers used the glyph that we would recognize as zero in the recording of astronomical data. There are numerous explanations, that it stood for ‘Ouden” or “Obol”. The usage did not stick around.

Ptolemy, in “Almagest” (130 AD) uses the Babylonian base sixty system and their ‘place-holder’ concept. Sorta Kinda. Ptolemy did not think of it as a number or a concept, but as a punctuation mark. Kind of like a period.

In India, the Hindu word for zero was ‘shunya’, or ‘sunya’ meaning ‘void’. This was translated into Arabic as ‘sifr’, and into English as ‘Cypher’.

Mohammad ibn Mus al-Kwarizmi (ce 780-850) was a mathimatician who introduced Hindu Arabic numerals, his book “Kitab al-jabr wa al-mugabalah” influenced these concepts when it was translated in the 12th Century.

In 1202, Leonardo of Pisa (or Leonardo Fibonacci – of whom I discussed just a bit ago) explained the concept of positional base notation, the point, negative numbers, and the zero, in his book, “Book of Abacus.”

However he speaks of the ‘sign’ zero rather than the number zero. And the ‘Fibonacci Sequence’ that kept scholars amused for hundreds of years is not (surprise surprise) a zeroth sequence – although one needs to grasp the concept of zero as a place holder and an abstract concept to fully grasp the enormity of the sequential implications. (they are still writing books on the Fibonacci Sequence, and the Golden Mean).

None of these concepts (for the zero) were widely used, or accepted until the 17th Century, and even then experienced resistance.

The Glyph that we refer to as Zero, came from India (?) and in Arabic is called ‘galgal’, or “Wheel”.

The Arabic Glyph for zero is ‘"’.

We have the following subjects on Zero.

Zero as a concept
Zero as a placeholder (4 Tarot Cards or 4 things is different then the abstract concept of ‘Four”).
Zero – the Glyph used to illustrate it.

01234 & 1234 are, mathematically, conceptually, historically, very very different things.

In the Judaic culture and tradition, Aleph does not equal 0. Aleph = 1.

Wikipedia: The zeroth item is the initial item of a sequence, if that sequence is numbered beginning from zero rather than one.
While the ordinal of 0 is rarely used outside of communities closely connected to mathematics and computer science, there is one instance of it in classical music…
Therfore, a Zeroth sequence is Ordinal. Adding a Zero to the sequence reduces its ability to be both Cardinal and Ordinal. No 0, and it can be both. Add a 0, and now Le Bateleur is no longer free to ‘roam’.

I ramble...The Fibonacci sequence and the resulting Golden Mean were once the rage in intellectual circles. Remember…what was that book the Da Vinci Illustrated…Divine Proportion…yes that was it - Divine Proportion.

“Tzaddi is not the Star!” Crowley was not only wrong, he was dead wrong. His ego was so hung up in proving Mathers, MacGregor, and Waite wrong...Leviticus 19:14 says to never place a stumbling block before a blind man – and when you place a 0 on Le Bateleur it does just that.

So what deck am I going to choose?

It depends – for non-human life forms? Is there commonality of language?

Mathematics is the one constant that I believe we can cross the gulf of communication with non-human intelligent life forms. A nice basic Grimaud TdM will do very nicely.

“Well Umbrae, that’s been enlightening – we’d like to return you now, but can you take your deck and show us when?”

“Excuse me?” I ask?

“Which ‘when’ did you come from? What did the night sky look like ‘when’ we picked you up?”

If only we’d learn to use Tarot as a cosmic timepiece…I’d be home by now…

:smoker:

PS: it becomes apparent that I’ve put way too much thought into this. But you know…like I like to say…”What if…?”
 

Lillie

I don't read the Thoth astrologically.

If someone came in the night and moved all the signs around on the cards, I'd barely notice.

I'm interested in astrology.
But I never could get it to mesh with Tarot.

Other people can, but I can't.

So, if my alien wanted me to read, I'd use the Thoth, because I always do.
And if he commented on the astrological signs, I'd say they were only there for decoration.
 

Lain_82

If my Alien wanted an in-depth explanation of Tarot and Numerology I would totally advice him to pay you a visit Umbrae :D You rambled a lot but that post was very interesting to read.....


:smoker:
 

HudsonGray

Hey, wasn't River Tam human? It was a point that there WERE no 'aliens' in the Firefly universe (upside down cow fetus notwithstanding).
 

Dwaas

Cosmic Tribe because it celebrates human life. Welcome my friend from Zork12XJ, and this is who we are.
Blessings
 

Satori

Umbrae, nice post. I'm off to vacation for a week...I'll bring it with me.
:bugeyed:
 

Umbrae

HudsonGray said:
Hey, wasn't River Tam human?
Sure she was human.

But like I asked in my post. What SIGN was she?

See - she was not earthborn...so what sign was she?