From TdM to...?

DavidLee

Hello fellow TdM readers.

I feel like the TdM sort of "chose me" rather than the other way around. I have been doing all my learning with it and Jodorowsky's The Way of Tarot.

However, lately I have been feeling sort of separated from other Tarot readers as well as querents by using this deck. With other Tarot readers, they get confused since I am not using anything like the RWS meanings. There are also many RWS "clone" decks that I am left out of by not learning RWS.

Speaking of decks, the TdM just isn't as pretty as other decks, the pips in particular. It is nice when I receive a reading to have pretty pictures to look at and inspire me. I feel that the TdM is missing this.

But! I still feel very connected to the deck and I don't want to learn RWS. I feel like RWS imposes a bunch of interpretations on me that I had nothing to do with and I don't like that.

Does anyone know of a good deck(s) to use which are more varied and pretty but which are still abstract enough to not be imposing? I am thinking about picking up the Thoth deck. Has anyone gone from TdM to Thoth, and what was your experience with it?

Has anyone felt similar to me, but gotten through it so that now you are reading (in person) with the TdM confidently? Do you ever lament the fact that there aren't pretty pictures on the cards? Do you feel this hinders your connecting with the querent at all?
 

jhernandez

The TdM

Hello there and welcome!

I am also reading The Way of Tarot and I really love it. Jodo does an excellent job in describing the tarot. Now, how far are you in the book? He does go in depth about the minor arcana and the court cards. I am assuming that you are reading from the Camoin/Jodo Marseille deck? It was a bit difficult at first to understand how the pip cards correlate with the Majors and the courts. What really helped me was putting the cards in the mandala dorm that Jodo talks about in the book; you will see the deck in its entirety. He guides you through the process and explains how each card starting from the Ace to the Chevalier relate to each other. I do not know the Thoth tarot, but I do have some knowledge of the Wite deck. They are two very different styles, I cannot say that I prefer the Wite because it is hard for the cards to come together and form one large reading. This is because to me the cards do not speak to each other which is important to me. The pip cards in the Wite style seem to have a very individual meaning, whereas the Marseille deck they seem to all come together. There is a lot of numerology with the pip cards in the Marseille deck that I do not find in the other style. I really like this because in actuality it make the reading easier once you get the hang of it. Hope this kinda helps. If you have more questions we can talk more given the fact that we both are reading Jodo's book.
 

Chiriku

Hi DavidLee.

I know exactly the feeling you describe. I love decks in the historical and TdM tradition, and every few years, get re-excited about them. But...I don't get excited about the pips. A huge chunk of my attraction to Tarot is its visual and artistic appeal; I'm not even really interested in divination per se, but in Tarot, specifically.

And Minor Arcana are the heart of my tarot experience, no matter what type of deck I use. I resonate more with them than with the Trumps. But I do somewhat feel, as you do, that I get visually short-changed when I use a pips-deck instead of one with scenic Minors.

Then answer or compromise for you might be a non-scenic Minors deck with an especially appealing visual style. Have you considered the Crystal Tarot with artwork by Elisabetta Trevisan? Now, that deck DID arise from a "system" (as opposed to TdMs, which didn't)--that of Eudes Picard. And Cups are Air and Swords are Water. But because they are non-scenic pip cards (albeit more fancifully and intricately illustrated than most--some might call them "moody"), you can still approach them the same way you do a TdM deck.

By the way, if you think Waite is too much of a system (and it is), wait till you get a load of Thoth. The Minors may be non-scenic, but it is the consummate system-y deck. In addition to sharing the same Golden Dawn roots as Waite's deck, the Thoth is steeped in formal occult and esoteric systems--Kabbalah, astrology, a revealed spiritual system known as Thelema. Some Thoth enthusiasts believe you shouldn't even use the deck without first researching the system and its creator, Aleister Crowley.
 

le_charior

DavidLee said:
However, lately I have been feeling sort of separated from other Tarot readers as well as querents by using this deck. With other Tarot readers, they get confused since I am not using anything like the RWS meanings. There are also many RWS "clone" decks that I am left out of by not learning RWS.

Speaking of decks, the TdM just isn't as pretty as other decks, the pips in particular. It is nice when I receive a reading to have pretty pictures to look at and inspire me. I feel that the TdM is missing this.
Click to expand...

Hey, you're not alone :) There is a TdM underground here at AT, and even if we are not as many, we do exist ;)

Confusion can be a good thing, shaking up things a little. For other readers and even querants, I would say!

And I strongly disagree that the TdM pips are less pretty or beautiful than any scenic minors. Of course you have the right to your taste, but for me the beauty of the TdM lies in the combination of scenic trumps and courts (for more "concrete", figurative images) and non scenic pips (for more "abstract" images, even if they are not purely abstract with their flowers and vines). I feel that is liberating, to have both, and not some comic strip art on EVERY single card. Just my opinion, of course!

But to get to your question: what about Brian Williams Renaissance Tarot? It has small scenes from greek mythology on its otherwise rather traditional pips. Two links:

On AT: http://aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/renaissance/
Review by Tom Tadfor Little: http://www.telp.com/tarot/renaissance.htm
 

Richard

DavidLee said:
......Has anyone gone from TdM to Thoth, and what was your experience with it?......
Click to expand...
I went the other way: from Thoth to TdM. It felt quite liberating. With the Thoth pips one feels constrained by the titles, which are mostly identical with the Golden Dawn titles, from which the RWS images were derived. My Tarot odyssey so far has been: RWS -> Thoth -> TdM -> RWS. The return to RWS was because I missed the GD connection and got very sick and tired of some TdM purists' insistence that one should be vigilent in disallowing any "impurities" from alchemy, astrology, or Qabalah to affect a TdM reading. This attitude even impacted my use of this forum, to the extent that I stopped posting here until the fanaticism was ameliorated. Actually, I now use both the CBD TdM and the Albano-Waite. I like the Thoth and have carefully read The Book of Thoth, which I find to be an extremely valuable resource for any GD-type deck, but so far I don't connect very well with the Thoth imagery, as well as remaining skeptical about Tzaddi not being The Star. I should think that in going from the Thoth to the TdM, some people might regret the lack of keywords/titles on the pips.
 

Zephyros

I will always recommend the Thoth to anyone, I think it is a great deck, not only for doing readings with, but the mere study of it is a fascinating journey. There is so much there, so much to think about and ponder, I can't foresee a stage I will be "done" with it. The art just glows with beauty, and, truly, I can't praise it enough!

But it depends on what you want, really. When you say "abstract," what do you mean? The Thoth of course, isn't as "pure" as the TdM, and is akin to the RWS in that working from the pictures is an important part. I mean, it`s all there on the cards themselves, and they are loaded. Working inuitively from, you may miss out on a lot, but it is possible. But in any case, comparing it to the TdM is no good, it`s a whole other ballgame. But then flexibility of thought is one of the most important lessons Tarot can teach us, so go for it, what's the worst that can happen? :)
 

PathWalker

I wouldn't worry what other readers think - if the folks you're reading for are happy, that's what counts :)

If you go to one of the compare pages at albideuter (I've picked 8 of Swords for comparison) you'll see your card, but also a wide range of others decks, all the 8 of Swords.
Then you'll get an idea of what you might like.

http://www.albideuter.de/html/schwerter_8.html

How much detail do you want, what kind of artwork appeals? HOpe the site helps; it's never as good as having a deck in your hands to look at, but it's useful

Pathwalker
 

DavidLee

Chiriku said:
I believe this link to Trevisan's deck comes from a site that the AT mods don't prohibit:

http://www.albideuter.de/html/kristall-crystal-vetro.html
Click to expand...

Oh my that is a beautiful deck! And just briefly looking at the pips, they very much seem to resonate with the meanings I already have for them. I will look into this deck more closely later. Thanks!

And thanks to all the other respondents as well. The Crystal Tarot seems to have the right balance that I am looking for.
 
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