Good Vibrations

[RubyV]

I am dead wrong often enough that I am shy of professing absolute belief in anything simply because there are limits to knowledge. The best minds indeed end up framing the limitations as best as they can. I was reading a book last year by Jeremy Narby The Cosmic Serpent — DNA and the Origins of Knowledge which touches upon the limits of the current scientific method and how it sometimes can only deal with "A, B or C" choices, due to the methodology. He mentions this because the thesis of his book is quite startling and lies beyond what would be considered proper science in that he found empirical examples of intelligence and consciousness in places where science would not acknowledge such to exist. His observations remind me very much of some shamanistic beliefs, of objects having consciousness, of awareness in places that are non-human, though Narby speaks of consciousness being in our very DNA, in the cells themselves. Despite the his unusual observations, Narby is still able to recognize that the means to examine such ideas scientifically do not yet exist and would be rejected because of our current methodology. Narby understands these limits because he is a anthropologist and is concerned with the quality of thought in his work.

I find the comparisions to Narby's work interesting. Much of what Narby discusses I believes holds true with Tarot as well.

In the interest of full disclosure, Narby reached his conclusions through the use of hallucenigenics, like the shamans he was studying.

Anyway, one may argue that the vibrations people are refering to are similar to the intelligence that the shamans gathered from the plant life they were working with, since after all, the shamans state that the plants shared their knowledge with him, much in the same way that we couold say that tarot does with those who read them.

 

[KaiMoonshadow]

I do agree with you that the cards are mere tools; however, as a painter in my other life, my brushes are mere tools, as well. But I never let anyone put their grubby hands on any one of those, either. And I always treat them with the same respect I treat my tarot deck with--cleaning them, drying them and housing them properly (my brushes, that is).

Now, I really don't "clean" my tarot decks as others here do (I do keep them in boxes to protect them)...but I do see the reasoning behind those who do. I admire people who treat their cards with respect.

Don't forget, (not the least of my personal reasonings here)...those factory-made, mass-produced little slips of cardboard are expensive to replace!

[edited for spacing]

I agree with this... I'm a guitarist and I treat my guitars the same way - they get lovingly tendered to, just as my tarot cards and any other of my treasured items do I wouldn't call this superstition - just looking after the things I love...

 

[thinbuddha]

I know that this could get good..... Wish I had more time to chime in with more opinion.....

I have had my own experiences with the plants talking to me. I am not sure what to make if it, but it certainly was an eye-opener every time it happened. I have known states of mind where I could communicate with the rocks, and begin to guess at their goals, and the methods they use to reach them.... So I am certainly open to the possibility that rocks (or cards) have an essence (if not an soul) that can perhaps, in some way, influence what is around them. But at the same time, I believe that people often give the inanimate too much power, and themselves too little power. Your mind is, in my view, much more powerful than you are probably giving it credit for- and it can often pull tricks on you to reach it's own goals (which will often be at odds from what you think your goals are, or should be).

-tb

 

[full deck]

I think the fact that each of us paves our own paths through what we believe is the only consistent or constant thing for these discussions. I think that there are no right or wrong ways or answers - everyone is right! . . .

Here, if I'm not mistaken, you are talking about the path of individualization, if I can borrow an idea from Jung, wherein a person may discover the symbolism that lies within Tarot on a personal level. There is no correct or incorrect way or manner to experience and understand such because it is a personal experience and contains a whole lot of mystery. There are misconceptions about reality and falacies in belief, however, that are common though, and such is not healthy, hence wrong.

One should demand more proof — emprical or scientific — before they start believing, for example, that smoke will "cleanse" a deck from bad "vibes". For that much why not just burn it and get all of those vibes!?

 

[full deck]

I find the comparisions to Narby's work interesting. Much of what Narby discusses I believes holds true with Tarot as well.

In the interest of full disclosure, Narby reached his conclusions through the use of hallucenigenics, like the shamans he was studying.

Anyway, one may argue that the vibrations people are refering to are similar to the intelligence that the shamans gathered from the plant life they were working with, since after all, the shamans state that the plants shared their knowledge with him, much in the same way that we couold say that tarot does with those who read them.

Yes, this was the part of Narby's work that I found absolutely fascinating as well. His experiences made me consider that there is something to what Shamans talk about and also our ideas regarding what is sentient life. It will take more than what science currently has to deal with this topic however. Regarding Tarot, it gave me extra reason to consider what one other AT member said about the Major Arcana being alive. I thought, too that there were connections to the Tarot in Narby's work as well.

I can understand and appreciate your thoughts on this but my contention is that there are quite a few people who talk of such without having read anything or experimented with this on a personal level. I could understand one talking about having an intuition about something but many seem to confuse "intuition" with just being gullible.

 

[full deck]

. . . I have had my own experiences with the plants talking to me. I am not sure what to make if it, but it certainly was an eye-opener every time it happened. I have known states of mind where I could communicate with the rocks, and begin to guess at their goals, and the methods they use to reach them.... So I am certainly open to the possibility that rocks (or cards) have an essence (if not an soul) that can perhaps, in some way, influence what is around them. But at the same time, I believe that people often give the inanimate too much power, and themselves too little power. Your mind is, in my view, much more powerful than you are probably giving it credit for- and it can often pull tricks on you to reach it's own goals (which will often be at odds from what you think your goals are, or should be).

I would love to hear more about such. I keep an open mind about such and can easily agree with much of what you have said too. I have no reason to believe that any kind of residual "energy" on a man-made artifact would be a problem for a living person. People are plenty strong.

 

[Fulgour]

If I trick me, am I fooled?

Your mind is, in my view, much more powerful than you are probably giving it credit for- and it can often pull tricks on you to reach it's own goals (which will often be at odds from what you think your goals are, or should be).

This is like stepping back and asking yourself, am I doing what I'm doing,
or what I think I'm doing~ is a physical reality different from the mental.
Which of course it is, physically. But what is mental if not truly physical?

As physical beings, everything we experience is physical ~ even of spirit.
How could it be otherwise? We are physical. But, do we know ourselves?
Certainly we do, at least better than someone with an opinion of ourself.

The essence of transcendence is slipping the bonds of time into oneness.
Every-thing will have some-thing to tell you then: rocks are quite chatty.

 

[gregory]

This is like stepping back and asking yourself, am I doing what I'm doing,
or what I think I'm doing~ is a physical reality different from the mental.
Which of course it is, physically. But what is mental if not truly physical?

As physical beings, everything we experience is physical ~ even of spirit.
How could it be otherwise? We are physical. But, do we know ourselves?
Certainly we do, at least better than someone with an opinion of ourself.

The essence of transcendence is slipping the bonds of time into oneness.
Every-thing will have some-thing to tell you then: rocks are quite chatty.

I can't agree with you here.... If EVERYTHING is truly physical, why have they never yet isolated the bit of our (presumed) brain that makes each of us us, our "soul" if you like ???? I do agree that most of us are using only a fraction of the power we each have....

We are close to the old chestnuts:

Does the fire continue to burn while you are outside the room, or does it only look and feel as you would expect when you come back to the room because that was what you expected ?

When a tree falls somewhere where there is no-one to hear, does it make a sound ?

 

[fairyhedgehog]

Perhaps the only thing more often criticised than an answer
is the question itself. Rephrasing questions makes me wince.

I'm sorry to make you wince Fulgour but I was making a valid point

 

[gregory]

“Depends what you mean” (I HATE THAT !!!) by rephrasing the question…………..

I do dislike it when I read a post where someone says “Oh, if that’s the outcome, that means I must REALLY have been asking about xyz" when they had asked about abc…

But there can be times when the question was badly phrased; querents are often not very experiences. Isn’t it up to readers to help them clarify exactly what they want to know before they start ?? I am reminded of an awful woman at work, who asks for stuff and it is always wrong because she never asks the right question and you cannot figure out what she really wants to know…. (she is one of the reasons I am quitting !!!)