Have your feelings on "wordy" decks changed?

Chiriku

Mine have.

I used to despise any writing on the cards besides the Trumps' one-word title, the numbered Minors' suit and number, and the court cards' suit and rank. I did use the Thoth years ago but would grit my teeth and try to ignore Crowley's one word titles on the Minors.

Technically, the Golden Dawn titles, Crowley's Thoth titles (and decks based on his), and other "system"-based writing on decks are not "keywords." Yet, in literacy-oriented societies, many people can't help but automatically read words on a card as "the meaning" (i.e. keywords) of the card. Many people's brains zero in on writing (especially that which is novel, and for many RWS tradition-reared people, the bog-standard titles I described in the first paragraph above don't count as "novel").

For lack of a better term to encompass both keyword decks and decks with special titles such as the aforementioned, I shall call them all "wordy" decks.

Then I forced myself to spend more time working with decks I liked but for their "extra" words. That included a more intensive delving into the Thoth, as well the Haindl and the Navigators of the Mystic SEA.

What I found was strange: it wasn't that I stopped seeing the titles, but that I started to appreciate them almost as direct messages from the cards, as a voice that spoke clearly and with singular focus in a way that a non-wordy card doesn't. And that in turn even led me to--surprise of all surprises, for me--see the benefit to non-tarot oracle cards. That's the latter's main selling point for me, in fact: not the imagery, but the Words.

I'm now fond of all three of those decks, with the the Navigator in particular being in my small cadre of favorite decks. Indeed, another of my favorites is one that even has the full Golden Dawn titles--i.e. whole phrases--written on it (Clark's Magickal)!

When once I shuddered and pushed away my decks with words, now I welcome them as clear Voices speaking from the cards.

Now, I am at the point where I enjoy reading with several wordy decks including the aforementioned, but I won't read for others with them, in risks of them reading the words and thinking, "Oh, that's the meaning," even when I am interpreting the card or layout in a way that does not appear to align with the "keyword."

But I wonder if soon I will get over that particular hang-up, as well.

After all, I now enjoy working with wordy decks, and you couldn't have convinced me of that 15 or 10 or even 5 years ago.

What about you: have your feelings about wordy decks changed, and in what way? From like to dislike, or dislike to like--and why?
 

Chiriku

Logos

About words...

Words are only and yet much more than ideas. To speak a word or a name is to give life to a dream, a philosophy, a god.

I don't know why I shied away for so long from wordy decks when the written word has been sacred to me since my infancy, when indeed I've made my living by words.

Tarot cards are not just about imagery, are they? It is not just the picture of a juggler or a mountebank that gives the card its power but the fact that he has been called Le Bateleur on the one hand, or The Magician on the other. See the difference words make?

Giving myself over to wordy decks has been a return to my roots as someone for whom words speak with greater resonance even than images. They add more, not less, power to a reading in which a weighty answer is called for.

But take my "words" here as those of someone from a highly literacy-oriented family, living in a literacy-oriented society, reared in religion in which the Word is, in a genuinely literal sense, sacred.
 

Barleywine

Mine have.

I used to despise any writing on the cards besides the Trumps' one-word title, the numbered Minors' suit and number, and the court cards' suit and rank. I did use the Thoth years ago but would grit my teeth and try to ignore Crowley's one word titles on the Minors.

What about you: have your feelings about wordy decks changed, and in what way? From like to dislike, or dislike to like--and why?

A lot of interesting points here. As a long-time Thoth user, I find that the words on the cards kind of recede into the background. If I'm having trouble relating fluently to the symbolism in a particular reading, I might bounce back to the card title as a "centering" device, but it doesn't happen often. I kind of instinctively jump right onto cards that the querent might misconstrue ("WHAT??? Failure? Debauch? THE DEVIL??!!!") and try to explain the underlying history and principles behind the choice of words before it can become an obstacle to understanding. But single words, or at most titles like "Lord of . . . " are about all that I can tolerate. Multiple keywords might be OK in a learning deck, but I find them annoying (and possibly an impediment to free-association) in a deck for general reading, and I won't buy such decks. I prefer the symbolism in the images to tell the story.
 

Morwenna

Titles don't bother me, even nonstandard titles. Keywords haven't bothered me yet, because I don't pay them any mind, and anyway I only have a couple decks with keywords. I certainly don't go out of my way to buy such! So far I haven't read for anyone else with a keyword deck, and if I did I'd probably just say what I would anyway, and if the querent questioned me on it I'd go into detail of why I differed, if indeed I did differ.
 

Alamaris

Titles and keywords have, oddly, never bothered me, although I can understand why some readers vehemently dislike them. I assume this is because my first experience with keyworded cards was with the Thoth, and before I could make a judgement about them, I found out that they were considered titles (Lord of...) and thought that it was a neat idea. It really personified the cards as Things Which Speak instead of simply cardboard tools, in a metaphorical way, and that concept helped me invest in my readings more deeply. Keywords DO bother me when they're excessive, in the case of some "beginner's" decks in which a sentence or two about the meaning was pasted onto the card, but that's a slightly different kettle of fish.

I've come to enjoy decks with titles or keywords more and more -- the Jolanda, the Tarot des Femmes Erotiques (which has titles like "defeat of the mind," "she who controls the money," and "juggling work"), etc.
 

Chiriku

Good stuff. I can't reply in detail at the moment, but for now, can we generate a list of "wordy" decks?

I'll start us off with the "top of my head:"

Thoth
Sun and Moon
Navigators
Magickal
Haindl

Gotta go at the moment but keep the list coming.

Will be back later to respond to each of you.
 

daphne

MerryDay Tarot
I am one Tarot
Rosetta Tarot
Parrott tarot
Shakespeare
 

Le Fanu

I thought I didn't like them until I got a copy of the Via Tarot which is very Thoth-based and found that as it didn't have the card titles I found it very difficult to read with. I love the titles such as Truce or Harmony or Happiness in the Thoth and to this day the only reason I cannot use the Via is because the wordlessnesss stumps me and I have to try and think of the Thoth equivalent and so end up going straight to the Thoth.

Thoth words feel a part of the overall concept and I love them. It's RWS "keywords" (they never had titles) which really annoy me. They're the ones I can't deal with.

More wordy deck;

Hermetic
Navigators Tarot of the Mystic SEA
Greenwood
William Blake.

I really don't mind it in any of these decks. The Magickal Tarot wordiness is the most irritating; "Holy Lord of the Dark Elemental Beetroot." So pompous...
 

Alta

I am fine with wordy decks, including the Magickal. I think that may be because of so many years with the I Ching which is essentially a book oracle. I guess the Golden dawn titles could sound pompous, but to me they seem to open ideas up. They seem darkly mysterious. :)

When I read the words, colours and images sort of flow together in my mind, along with my mental grab-bag of numerology and goodness knows what else.
 

marimorimo

Wordy decks in my collection:

Sun and Moon
Sacred Circle Tarot
Shapeshifter

Frankly I hated the keywords. They seemed to get in the way of intuition and a lot of times I couldn't even relate the picture to the words!

However... recently as I was browsing the Hermetic Tarot, the keywords suddenly 'clicked.' I don't like the deck visually, but those longer-winded titles (e.g. "Lord of Success Unfulfilled") made a lot of sense. I like this kind of keyword better than the shorter Thoth "Failure." I'm currently seriously considering getting a Golden Dawn deck with "Lord of..." keywords in it, hopefully with better art than the Hermetic.