Heirophant & The Devil

[TeeheeDebby]

In honesty I'm a lot more scared of the heirophant than of the devil. The heirophant waits at the opening of the cave that sits within the mountain that the devil sits on top of. The devil looks like he is enjoying himself and everything up there while the heirophant is smiling but not in a "I'm-enjoying-this" type of way.

The heirophant is the devil's father to me. The strict father that never let his kids do anything that wasn't in the rule book. The devil is the rebel child that didn't listen to his father and got out of the dark cpld cave he was being kept in and climbed to the top. The heirophant can always retreat back into his safe cave with the safety of his rules and structure but he will/is never going anywhere because he is too afraid to take risk. The devil made it to the top and is enjoying the view. The devil even has people willing to follow him. Not becauseb he is forcing them or anything like that, but because they want to and they enjoy it
The het has no one because yes people like structures but too much can be difficult to handle for a lenghty amount of time.

That's my two cents on the relationship between the heirophant and the devil. What your take? This is withthe rider waite deck. other decks are welcomed.

 

[dancing_moon]

If we're talking purely theoretically (i.e. not about a specific reading), my take is a little different.

The Hierophant might be a strict father, but then the Devil is a prodigal son who never repents. In a nutshell, the former, for me, is more about outer restrictions (laws, rules, comme il faut), and the latter is more about inner restrictions (obsessions, desires, ego). I don't think the Devil's 'rebellion' is anything more than falling into the opposite extreme - being still bound, but by your own weaknesses and attachments this time, even by your desire to 'rebel' at any cost. However, the Devil is not a liberator. The view is still as blocked as ever.

Just my ideas.

 

[rwcarter]

Being bound (Devil) by tradition (Hierophant).
Conformity (Hierophant) at all costs (Devil).
Imposing (Devil) your beliefs on others (Hierophant).

 

[TeeheeDebby]

Oooo I like both of your takes on there relationship and how they how they relate. It's interesting and sheds a little more light on th subject.

Dancing_moon, that is very eye opening and more objective (?). I like it. I really like your take on the devil being your own demons.

Rwcarter, I like how you related them in terms of what could be holding someone back and or the meanings if put together.

 

[ravenest]

Oh dear ... all this devil / bondage stuff.

It isnt at all impossible that the Devil can assist in BREAKING what binds us ... especially if it is a collective oppressing social or religious environment? What better way to learn to undo knots than to practice on a knotted rope?

The Heirophant is the teacher and initiator (Hermetically speaking ... religiously speaking he is the Pope or one's Priest) ... in a way, so is the Devil an initiator. One could see the Heirophant as the 'technical instructor' - do it this way, expect this or that, then try ... etc. The Devil, in this aspect, is hard experience ... hammer time (Little Johnny's father is the Heirophant, with instructions and warnings ... the Devil is when Johnny learns a different way, by whacking his thumb with the hammer).

Externally (in the objective world) the cave can be 'Plato's Cave' ;

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave )

Psychologically ( in your subjective world) that cave caqn reprsent your inner world or unconscious .

... the Heirophant can teach you about that. The Devil can then be seen as an unconscious personna ... the'Master' of the underworld and unconscious ( sitting on top of the cave ... 'coming out' ) . The two in harmony offer great potential. Actually, they probably 'need' each other.

In this aspect the Heirophant could be seen as the Super Ego, the Magician as Ego and the Devil as Id. So yes, the Devil does need modifying by the other two, but so do each of the other two.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego )

Ever done that game as a kid; you get in a very dark room with a mirror and look very close up at your own face ... or your friends face .... peek-a-boo ! Dont ge scared - it is you.

 

[TeeheeDebby]

Ooo Ravenest you made it sound so... so cool! When you put it like that I actually kind of lo ke the heirophant. Hehe

 

[Zephyros]

The Devil is how you learn from the Hierophant.

 

[foolMoon]

This is my feeling about them. Purely subjective of course.

Heirophant tells us to do what is right at all costs.
Devil tells us to do what is good fun at all costs.

Depending on the circumstances, final results could be extreme in both cases i.e. utmost good reward or tragic destruction.

 

[Tiggy-cat]

Wow, very cool thread. They do kind of seem like 2 sides of the same coin, each one necessary to the other's survival, like that Star Trek episode where the transporter malfunctions and beams Kirk up as 2 separate people, one docile and weak and the other pure animal aggression. I suppose if we never think outside the box, we become stagnant, but if we never follow a path, we never go anywhere either. Hmmm.

 

[nisaba]

In honesty I'm a lot more scared of the heirophant than of the devil. The heirophant waits at the opening of the cave that sits within the mountain that the devil sits on top of. The devil looks like he is enjoying himself and everything up there while the heirophant is smiling but not in a "I'm-enjoying-this" type of way.

I was going to say what deck are you dealing with, but then you said:

That's my two cents on the relationship between the heirophant and the devil. What your take? This is withthe rider waite deck. other decks are welcomed.

That certainly doesn't describe the RW Hierophant ...

When the Trumps were settled-on, back in the 1400s or even earlier perhaps, people then liked sets, pairs and opposites.

Hence the set Star, Moon and Sun, and the pairs Emperor and Empress, Hierophant (Pope as it was then) and High Priestess (Papess as it was then). The intellectual world was categorised in sets like that. As the earliest decks don't actually have titles on them, I'm pleased to think that Temperance might have been called The Angel, which makes her a perfect set for the Devil. Angel and Devil as opposites.