how much of crowley in the thoth tarot ?

[Nininka]

Hello all,

I really dont know much about Crowley yet and I have only started with the Thoth tarot recently.
I own a pocket Thoth accompanied by a book written by Miki Krefting (which I believe is a german tarot publicist).
This was the only version that sells in czech (I could have ordered an English one from amazon, but the czech one is more affordable).

I know that Crowley has negative reputation.
Not being very familiar with magick and occult, I have not an idea what exactly are the reasons that have stirred the public view on him.
Is there a good website that sums it up for a not very "occult art" knowledgable person ?
Or the negative stuff has more to do with day-to-day life and views of his ?

How much of his personality can really be found in Thoth ?
I mean if I have not read the Book of Thoth does it mean I am blisfully ignorant of his work and the deck does not really reveal its secrets to me ?

I bought it since I simply love the art of the deck. I knew at the time of the purchase about its authors negative reputation. But I also knew who the painter was and for me the art as such is simply good. I love art in its true non-commerial form and for me this deck is quite non-commercial and looks like a huge amount of work went to it. It feels genuine.
It does not look dark to me, but then again I really dont know much about a lot of its symbolism yet. I am a person easily scared by the "darker" things, I just dont see it in this deck though, is there any of it in it ?

I would love your opinions on this.
I hope I am not using the deck for wrong reasons.

Sorry for the long post !!!!

 

[Lillie]

You can use and enjoy the deck on many levels.
You cannot use it in the wrong way.
It's yours, you bought it, you can use it in whichever way suits you.

As for Crowley, he had a lot of imput into the creation of the deck. He sometimes made Frieda Harris (the Artist) redraw a card any number of times until he was happy with it.

As for Crowley himself, there are many differing opinions on him.
His reputation really stems from two things. He liked to shock people, and the press at the time called him 'The wickedest man in the world', and wrote lots of negative things about him.

He was quite an amazing man, he did an awful lot in his life, which makes him very interesting to read about.
He joined the Golden Dawn, a society of people who were interested in parcticing ceremonial magic. A. E. Waite was also a member, and he went on to design the Rider Waite Smith (RWS) Tarot deck, along with the artist, Pamela Colman Smith.

Crowley was interested in many areas of magic that were thought to be quite shocking in those days, particularly the practice of 'sex magic', which is really raising the power to do magic through the sex act and through the power of orgasm. Really very similar to eastern tantric practices.
Though what was particularly shocking in those days was that he was bi-sexual and would use both men and women as his partners in these rites and practices.
He is also supposed to have summoned demons, sacrificed animals, seduced innocent men and women, taken vast ammounts of drugs, betrayed britain to the Germans during the war, all sorts of stuff.
The press liked to tell these stories to sell papers, and Crowley himself seemed to like the publicity and play up to it.

He was also a very serious magician. He took his magic and philosophy very seriously, he wrote many books about it.

There are lot's of books and sites about him, I'm sure people here will tell you about some, but you could just try google.

Yes, he has got a bad rep, but he was a very interesting character.
I think that everyone should make up their own mind about him.

The deck he made is very deep, filled with esoteric symbolism, and Frieda Harris's art is very beautiful.
It's my favourite deck, I love it.
It can be used to study the deepest ocult secrets and ideas, but it can also be used to ask ordinary questions.
It's a lovely, wonderful versatile deck.
Whatever Crowleys reputation, you should not let it put you off using it.

 

[Nininka]

thanks

Hi Lillie,

thanks for taking the time to write such a lenghty answer.
I am happy to have read it, as I really appreciate any info and opinions on this deck
I feel strangely drawn to it

Katerina

 

[Dwaas]

I will try to keep it short as Lillie said it way better than I ever could.
The Thoth is a great deck as you can start off using it from day one. It is after all a tarot deck so with some basic knowledge you could use them out of the box. But if you like to go indepth and study for the rest of your life this deck could be your company all the way.
Read about Crowley, decide for yourself. An interesting man, and personally I think he would have been a softie nowadays compared to certain (rock) artists who eat mice and bats alive and have sex with whatever moves on a stage with an audiance watching or even joining etc. And besides, Crowley is dead anyway, he and Lady Harris left us some great cards and that's it. I'd say pick them up, use them and find out for yourself if you like the Thoth. It is my alltime favourite.
Blessings

 

[Formicida]

Just to chime in with one more perspective...

To answer the question in the post title, there is a lot of Crowley in the Thoth. How much of that you choose to see and work with is totally up to you. Some people use this deck for years without ever knowing anything about his philosophy, and that works for them. I found that eventually I became curious about all the symbolism and wanted to read more.

I say, use the deck if you feel drawn to it. If you want to read more Crowley, do so. He's not as scary as his reputation--I don't think he could be.

Enjoy it! It's a great deck.

 

[rainwolf]

You could also read the biography of him: "Do what thou wilt" which is a very long but interesting read. I'm not that far into it, but I couldnt read all that much before I had other things. What I read though was interesting.

 

[Lillie]

My favourite book has always been 'The Great Beast' By john Symmonds.

Some say that tis book is terrible biased against Crowley, but I really enjoyed it.
It's easy to read and it paints a picture of a wild and fascinating man.

I guess it may play up some of his more outlandish exploits, but for me that is what makes it good.
I like reading about the crazy things people do. It's what makes them interesting.

And, for me at least, the Crowley in that particular book came across as quite a human man, with all the failings, and desires, and ego of many people.

He wasn't just a 'evil black magician', he was a person, who quite often made the wrong choice and who had to live with the consequences of his actions.

But most of all, what makes him interesting to read about, and what I admire about him most, was that he lived life to the full.

I don't know how much he is a good man, or a bad man. I suppose he was a bit of both.
Sometimes it's hard to seperate the actual man from the reputation, especially as he so often went to great lengths to shock.
But I do know that he was an interesting man.

 

[Edge]

Apart from the mechanical process, those who have participated in the creation of this deck have left no impressions upon it. In other words you won’t start behaving like someone besides yourself.

As has been suggested, it is perfectly acceptable to do as you wish with this deck of cards. But these are indeed magical tools and should be used accordingly.

To be drawn to these mysteries can be likened to a higher calling. Answering this is of course up to the individual. Once appreciation of the art work and technical analysis has been completed, higher calling should be examined on deeper levels. What force has attracted an interest in such tools, why are there so many different opinions, some strongly opposed to even owning this deck? These dark forces are fear and ignorance and will always challenge higher calling. One may arm themselves with knowledge, this may be considered the science part as relates to magick. The Book of Thoth is the companion to these cards and should be purchased as soon as possible. As an alternative BUT NOT A SUBSTITUTE, Understanding Aleister Crowley’s Thoth Tarot is a suitable “primer” to the Thoth. I believe that both text may be purchased through AT affiliates. Some may rush to recommend a free digital version but would you want a digital version of the deck? I wouldn’t, it’s well worth the small price to purchase a hardcopy.

I’d like to quote the following from the Book of Thoth, it is taken from the bibliographical note; these are only passages, the entire page is recommended reading. I thought it to much to post here though.

On 8th, 9th and 10th April, 1904 e,v., he received the Book of the Law. Chosen bv the Masters to carry out Their sublime plan, he began to prepare the way for the establishment of the New Aeon, as They instructed him.

But the Masters who had watched, guided, and chastised the author of this present volume, had in store the reward of his labors. They introduced to him a skilled artist, Frieda Harris, who, though she had little or no previous knowledge of the Tarot, possessed in her own right the Essential Spirit of the book.
Together they bent their energies to the formidable task of preparing the 78 cards of the Book of Thoth.

She accordingly forced him---the laziest man in three continents!---to undertake what is to all intent an original work, including the latest discoveries in modern science, mathematics, philosophy, and anthropology; in a word, to reproduce the whole of his Magical Mind pictorially on the skeleton of the ancient Qabalistic tradition. He accepted this colossal burden; it renewed his energy and his enthusiasm.

 

[Lillie]

Who wrote that?

The whole biographical note is written by S. H. Soror I. W. E. 8=3 A A

Who was that? Harris?
I don't think it can be.
I didn't think she ever reached the 8th degree of anything, or did she?

It bugs me when they hide behind these magickal names and degrees and stuff.

It's quite a good biographical note, a touch of humour in it, and a touch of brown nose.

And what is the accompanying booklet 'dashed off by C...'?
The BOT itself?
Not the LWB, there was none, surely?
The deck was not even published while he lived, and it never had a LWB until the later 70's.

I alwasy assumed the BOT, and ignored it as instructed to do so.

 

[Aeon418]

Who wrote that?
The whole biographical note is written by S. H. Soror I. W. E. 8=3 A A
Who was that?

I believe that Soror I.W.E. was the alias of Martha Kuntzel. She was a German student of Crowley's work who claimed she was close to Adolf Hitler. Crowley had a bit of a falling out with her over that fact during WW2, telling her that "England will knock Hitler for 6".

And what is the accompanying booklet 'dashed off by C...'?

It was the Book of Thoth itself. And considering that his parents didn't help it's not bad either. Typical Crowley humour.