Ignorant, narrow minded or a con artist?

Lion-O

Today I woke up somewhat late and because its sunday, a rather lazy day for me, I didn't feel like getting up right away but instead turned on the television an started zapping. Eventually I came across the Astro TV show, this is a program from a commercial tv station ("RTL") presented by a so called Tarot reader. The main idea is that people can call her up (ofcourse using an expensive telephone number) and ask her to do a reading. So far nothing really special.

Unfortunately for her no one seemed to feel like calling and so she started showing her Rider-Waite deck to her television audience by doing a few random spreads. So far also nothing too special but although difficult due to the fast moving camera I started noticing certain cards. And to my surprise she drew a lot of cards from the Swords and Pentacles suits. Now, bear with me; when it comes to relationships between cards I'm still very new. Still, it is my impression that many swords and pentacles together do bring a rather "dynamic" spread. The first two spreads were totally unfamiliar with me but I did spot a world card, the 3 of swords, 5 of swords, 4 of pentacles, 5 of pentacles and the fool showing up (note; these weren't all the cards, just the ones I managed to spot). When she did her second "demo" spread I noticed the 3 of swords as well as the 10 of swords showing up. Still; not familiar with the used spread but this was still a somewhat disturbing sight for me.

Then the poor woman didn't know quite well what to do other than to shuffle her cards when someone in the studio apparently told her to do a celtic cross spread. At first she didn't even understand what was being meant! But finally she seemed to come to her senses and started lying out the cards. Since I'm quite familiar with the Celtic Cross spread (and some of the variations) this immediately got my full attention. Considering that she didn't seem to ask a specific question it is my impression that the outcome of the spread totally reflected on her, on that same situation:

............10
.....5.......9
4..1/2..6..8
.....3.......7

Now, I didn't get to see all the cards but the ones I did see made me seriously wonder if this shouldn't have been at least somewhat upsetting to her. The first card she drew was the Sun reversed, considering this to be the heart of the manner I can't help wonder. I'm picking this up as if she could have done very great things, but is being blocked. The second card I saw was the 5 of Swords. Well, if that is your opposing factor I can't help wonder if this woman really is what she says to be!

Then the camera started tilting and moving again and during the next glimpse I managed to make out the four of cups on position 5. 7 of pentacles on position 6.

But when she was lying down the staff it became really disturbing to me. On Position 7 the ten of swords made another appearance and position 8 gave us the three of swords again. And to my astonishment she even made a comment: "Well now, thats not a very nice card. So lets change it with... this one" after which she replaced the three of swords with something else (the camera tilted away again and that was all I could see from the cards).

What gives?!

To me this particular spread just screamed for attention and I cannot help my line of thinking that something is very disturbingly wrong here. To me this spread was somewhat giving an impression that what she was doing wasn't fully done right. How she might be expecting some kind of reward for it while the outside environment may still witness all of this with some disdain maybe even considering a form of betrayal.

I was quite surprised that after lying about this spread she somewhat glimpsed over it, mumbling something in the likes of "And thats what a celtic spread looks like" after which she simply stashed the cards together and started shuffling them as if nothing serious happened.

Personally I'm quite weary when it comes to programs like these, where you have to call a rather expensive phone number in order to do something (play a game, cast a vote or ask for a reading). But seldom have I witnessed something like this. In my mind the cards basically revealed the whole thing for what it really is.

What do you think about all this ? Better yet; have you ever seen anything like this, maybe even seen this particular show too?

--
quick edit: now I know why I used .'s the other time I presented a spread diagram ;)
 

SunChariot

Well there are many ways of reading, and not all use the traditional card meanings or use reversals to mean the opposite of the upright cards. I myself have 3 different methods for reversals that I use, depending on my mood and none of them mean the opposite of the upright card or would add anything negative to the Sun card. It's hard to say which method she is using. So since card meanings are so flexible and there are many different styles of reading, I would have given her the benefit of the doubt.

Also not everyone even uses spreads. I have been reading 4 years now and I only used a Celtic Cross twice in my life, the very first two readings. So if someone asked me spontaneusly to do a Celtic Cross reading, I could not do it either. Nevertheless I consider myself a good reader.

What does seem suspect to me is when you said one card came up and she said: ""Well now, thats not a very nice card. So lets change it with... this one" There is no denying there was something seriously wrong there. Tarot is about finding the truth not about getting "nice" cards. It also made her look a bit insecure and as a professional on TV, it did not look good.

But again there are many methods of reading, some read by the traditional meanings and some don't. If she is reading intuitively she would not get the meanings you would expect the cards to have. And even the way I read is unique. Like your 5 of Swords example. MY main meaning of the 5 of Swords is that the querent is thinking about the traditional norms of society and if he should follow them or break away from them in the area discussed in his question. I am sure that differs from the way you see the card. 5 of Swords reversed could just mean that he is not ready to make a decision yet and it will take him some time first to sort out his beliefs and feelings on all this.

Again there are many ways to read. All are valid if they give you accurate answers. The same card does not necessarily have to give the same meaning to each reader, but the important thing is that each reader will be given the cards that will show them the correct meaning. That means two different readers doing the identical question for the same querent, might very likely get very different cards to come up with the same answer. But each reader will get the right cards that mesh with their individual style of readings and thinking. And that is fine and good as long as each of their method gives them truth.

Those are my views,

Babs
 

Demon Goddess

Lion-O said:
Today I woke up somewhat late and because its sunday, a rather lazy day for me, I didn't feel like getting up right away but instead turned on the television an started zapping. Eventually I came across the Astro TV show, this is a program from a commercial tv station ("RTL") presented by a so called Tarot reader. The main idea is that people can call her up (ofcourse using an expensive telephone number) and ask her to do a reading. So far nothing really special.

Unfortunately for her no one seemed to feel like calling and so she started showing her Rider-Waite deck to her television audience by doing a few random spreads. So far also nothing too special but although difficult due to the fast moving camera I started noticing certain cards. And to my surprise she drew a lot of cards from the Swords and Pentacles suits. Now, bear with me; when it comes to relationships between cards I'm still very new. Still, it is my impression that many swords and pentacles together do bring a rather "dynamic" spread. The first two spreads were totally unfamiliar with me but I did spot a world card, the 3 of swords, 5 of swords, 4 of pentacles, 5 of pentacles and the fool showing up (note; these weren't all the cards, just the ones I managed to spot). When she did her second "demo" spread I noticed the 3 of swords as well as the 10 of swords showing up. Still; not familiar with the used spread but this was still a somewhat disturbing sight for me.

Then the poor woman didn't know quite well what to do other than to shuffle her cards when someone in the studio apparently told her to do a celtic cross spread. At first she didn't even understand what was being meant! But finally she seemed to come to her senses and started lying out the cards. Since I'm quite familiar with the Celtic Cross spread (and some of the variations) this immediately got my full attention. Considering that she didn't seem to ask a specific question it is my impression that the outcome of the spread totally reflected on her, on that same situation:

............10
.....5.......9
4..1/2..6..8
.....3.......7

Now, I didn't get to see all the cards but the ones I did see made me seriously wonder if this shouldn't have been at least somewhat upsetting to her. The first card she drew was the Sun reversed, considering this to be the heart of the manner I can't help wonder. I'm picking this up as if she could have done very great things, but is being blocked. The second card I saw was the 5 of Swords. Well, if that is your opposing factor I can't help wonder if this woman really is what she says to be!

Then the camera started tilting and moving again and during the next glimpse I managed to make out the four of cups on position 5. 7 of pentacles on position 6.

But when she was lying down the staff it became really disturbing to me. On Position 7 the ten of swords made another appearance and position 8 gave us the three of swords again. And to my astonishment she even made a comment: "Well now, thats not a very nice card. So lets change it with... this one" after which she replaced the three of swords with something else (the camera tilted away again and that was all I could see from the cards).

What gives?!

To me this particular spread just screamed for attention and I cannot help my line of thinking that something is very disturbingly wrong here. To me this spread was somewhat giving an impression that what she was doing wasn't fully done right. How she might be expecting some kind of reward for it while the outside environment may still witness all of this with some disdain maybe even considering a form of betrayal.

I was quite surprised that after lying about this spread she somewhat glimpsed over it, mumbling something in the likes of "And thats what a celtic spread looks like" after which she simply stashed the cards together and started shuffling them as if nothing serious happened.

Personally I'm quite weary when it comes to programs like these, where you have to call a rather expensive phone number in order to do something (play a game, cast a vote or ask for a reading). But seldom have I witnessed something like this. In my mind the cards basically revealed the whole thing for what it really is.

What do you think about all this ? Better yet; have you ever seen anything like this, maybe even seen this particular show too?

--
quick edit: now I know why I used .'s the other time I presented a spread diagram ;)


Sounds to me like the deck was telling her that nobody wanted to call (swords) because the phone number to use was going to be too expensive for them (pentactles.).

I haven't seen this particular show, but one thing I have learned is that depending on where you learned it or who taught you it, there are several variations on positional meanings to the Celtic Cross alone.

If the CC she used was the same one I use, the Ten of Swords in position 7 is a good thing. :)

And the three of swords in position 8 tells me she ought to get a real 1-800 number and charge advertisers rather than customers. :D

HTH
 

Lion-O

The cards *DID* seem to speak

Today I came home and watched some TV (who doesn't from time to time) and to my surprise a Dutch consumer television program started a new season and opened up with...

A whole item about Astro TV (Dutch website) and another "Spiritual" broadcast on another commercial tv station (the big culprits here are RTL and SBS).

To my surprise they started infiltrating into the organisations behind all of those so called paranormal mediums who performed readings and other fortune telling "live" on TV. And it turns out that the whole driving force behind all of those TV programs is indeed making money and isn't at all focussed to the well fare of the callers. You can get a good preview on this issue on the Tros Radar website (also a Dutch website) in which they explain something about their infiltration.

In short: they let a journalist apply for a job as online medium and she easily managed to pass the "screening" while knowing absolutely nothing about all this. By doing so she managed to come into contact with other so called mediums who mostly agreed on one thing: this was a hoax, the only important thing was keeping people calling and making money. In fact; some mediums who actually managed to make a TV appearance and who were honost enough to tell certain callers that they couldn't perceive anything actually got scolded and pulled offline because their behaviour scared of potential customers. During these visits the reporter was even allowed to respond to a few questions one of those mediums got online as if she were the big online medium... Oh my...

It gets worse.. When I do a serious indepth reading for my own I can notice that its draining me. I get tired in some way. One of those mediums managed to run a multiple reading session with 6 people at the same time! 4 in online chat rooms, 1 on the telephone and she was doing a demonstrative reading for the reporter (who claimed to be a new aspirant medium).


I think this is a very interesting development considering that a few weeks ago I had a quick peek into one of the laid out spreads of one of those mediums and basically went: "this can't be right" (see 1st post). Seems the cards in question did indeed hold more information than I actually anticipated.

Personally I also think that while I applaud the actions which have been taken against these frauds there is a down side. Once again the whole topic of fortune telling, among with Tarot, has been put in a bad spotlight by people only interested in 1 thing: money. A sad development indeed if you ask me.
 

Abrac

I've never seen the show but it is rather amazing that you just happened upon it.

Having never seen it I can really comment on the lady's motives but personally I wouldn't call any of those so-called psychics and such that are on TV. A lot of them are advertised as entertainment but this lady doesn't even sound that entertaining. It's rather incredible that some people do call in to some of the more popular ones.
 

WolfSpirit

I saw a bit of Astro tv a while back – I think it must have been when I was in between computers and did not have my new computer yet.
I thought it was all very rushed. When the presenter had a caller she laid a spread and did the whole reading within a few minutes. But she did not explain the cards really, she just went “Oh this is a good card. The next one, not such a good card…but overall it looks good…” Bu then, how much can you say in a few minutes. I think they are only allowed to talk to the same client for a very limited time…it’s like a call center (and I hate that practice for call centers too).
Then the time in between callers she was explaining something…I really can’t remember what it was about, lol, but I remember it was very superficial and she was not really saying anything useful.
I was thinking, if you have the choice between a rushed reading live on tv, or a reading with one of her colleagues in private, I would always choose the private reading. But if indeed these peoples do six (!) readings at the same time, then that is pretty bad too…I share your fear that that may reflect badly on all readers who do online readings or readings over the phone (not for my own sake as I don’t read professionally)

I think I also read Astro tv only came about when they had to stop the phone-in game shows they had earlier because those are not allowed anymore. So that says it really – just another way to make money for the commercial tv stations. When I first heard about Astro tv, I thought it might help make tarot more accepted. Now I think it just shows tarot in a negative way.
 

Emily

We have a fairly good channel on satellite called 'Psychic TV'. Its still a call in show but they do some of the readings live and you get to see different decks being used and they are very professional. You can text in and see your text being answered on screen or phone in and have a private reading.

I've textd before and have had pretty good readings, I've also seen decks used and searched them out online to have a better look at them.

Its took a good few years for Psychic TV to build its reputation up, not only tarot but crystal readings, oracles, mediumship, runes, dreams - I could actually just leave this channel on all day. :)

I've also seen some pretty bad tarot shows on other channels, especially where you can't see what they seem to be seeing in the cards.
 

MissCW

I was going to start a post about this but then I found this thread. I watched this channel for the first time last night and was pretty outraged with what I was seeing ...

One poor woman was asking about a reconciliation with her ex, and she drew Death, 10 of Swords and something else, I think it was 5 of Pentacles. And he told her yes, she would be getting back together with him!!! This wasnt the only one either, there were quite a few like this. Another woman got a 5 of Cups for a question and he told her it was because she was "in a happy place surrounded by lush green fields" or words to that effect.

I really think this is wrong. I know we all read the cards differently but how they were pulling positives out of those I just don't know and I dont think it's fair to the people at all.

A lot are obviously calling every couple of days or so, it must be costing them a fortune and I think it just taking advantage of people who are in a bad place.

Sorry rant over, they did have some nice decks though!
 

Ange

I do a lot more with oracles than with tarot, and am the first to say that at times my tarot is a little rusty in places.....

But I have seen cards pulled on the TV show and the meanings they put on the odd one or two of them are totally opposite....
Ang x
 

starrystarrynight

MissCW said:
One poor woman was asking about a reconciliation with her ex, and she drew Death, 10 of Swords and something else, I think it was 5 of Pentacles. And he told her yes, she would be getting back together with him!!!
To play Devil's Advocate here, if the reader was looking at Elemental Dignities with these cards, I could see where he was coming from in saying what he said (all three cards would be ill-dignified and possibly read this way: Once (and if) the woman was able to turn her back on the sadness of the past and get out of that rut (Death, ID), there would be a light at the end of the tunnel for her (10 of Swords, ID), and she would see a positive change to the situation (Five of Pentacles, ID.))

In fact, I might read those cards that way, myself.