Is Aleister Crowley an Evil Man?

[chriske]

Aeon418, you said in an earlier post: "And that's certainly what seems to happen when most people encounter Crowley. They become obsessed about how he lived his life, and don't bother to look any further."

I entirely agree and I think that it is a common mistake. I must admit I did the same thing when I was studying the work and life of a (also long dead) poet some years ago. I picked up several excellent biographies but honestly felt that it was the poems and stories that told me the most about the subject poet. I expected to find the same problem with Crowley, so I purposely ignored the (several allegedly excellent) biographies of AC. I wanted to concentrate on his writings and I felt this would serve me best. That said, it was L.M. DuQuette who really turned me on.

 

[sacredashes]

I'm sure there's a private letter (I can't find it now ) where Crowley expresses a bit of regret late in life.

That said, a lot of people go through that stage too; I think it's where we reflect on who we were and blush at some of the things we did when we didn't know any better. But it's all good though.

Unfortunately that really does miss the point altogether. Crowley's teachings revolve around actual experience of, and extensive work with, spiritual practices. He was absolutely convinced that spiritual experience was only to be gained through working with various spiritual disciplines and personal effort.

This sounds very much like something I read in a book from Swami Rama (who happened to make it to the list of "gurus" with misdemeanors ). Its what is termed as direct experience which is essential in the spiritual progress.

Someone I deeply respect recently wrote to me and politely asked me to be aware of any projections I had/have on her. She said its because she is fallible so if I had any fantasies of her being otherwise, I have to work on removing them. Perhaps I need to load on the ideal perfection of an enlightened being on someone, not realizing that the person I look up to was / is on his or her personal journey and has the same right to mess up too.

While it's true someone who's more evolved spiritually ought to know better, we don't really know what sort of life lessons are in store for each of us at any stage of our spiritual journey.

"Pain and foolishness lead to great bliss and complete knowledge, for Eternal Wisdom created nothing under the sun in vain." quote from Khalil Gibran... I'm willing to bet though if I really made it a point to dig up the dirt on this guy, I'll definately find something.


Ash

 

[ravenest]

Thanks ravenest. I was really chuffed that I got such a good response.

I reflected today on my own reasons for taking an interest in AC. I even read your list of reasons from the experience of your group, to try and find where I fitted in! Seriously, it was very enlightening.

There are SOOO many more I could add. Here is an intersting one ... quest for power.

- The desire for, not only power, but some type of special power, with special advantage. People looking for a short cut, thinking that magick (or call it whatever you will) will give them an easy advantage without having to work for it.

Some people just want to see something really far out! ( I guess they haven't figured out that it is going on all about them - life itself ).

 

[ravenest]

Wiccan's would rather believe that Crowley had nothing to do with their rituals. If you mention Crowley in Wiccan circles you will probably end up with an athame stuck in your back.

Why do you say that? Many Wiccans are 'Alexandrian WIccan' (Alex Sanders - 'founder' . He combined Gardinarian Wicca with A.C.'s teachings. Surely they are aware of that?

 

[ravenest]

Perhaps we need to load on the ideal perfection of an enlightened being on someone, not realizing that the person we look up to was / is on his or her personal journey and has the same right to mess up too.

6. Be not hasty to condemn others; how knowest thou that in their place, thou couldest have resisted the temptation? And even were it so, why shouldst thou despise one who is weaker than thyself?

Liber Librae.

 

[sacredashes]

6. Be not hasty to condemn others; how knowest thou that in their place, thou couldest have resisted the temptation? And even were it so, why shouldst thou despise one who is weaker than thyself?

Liber Librae.

I do apologize if I sounded like I was comdemning others, it was not my intention to come across that way.

Beginning the sentence with "Perhaps" is my way of indicating a hypothesis, nothing definate.. just stating possible reasons why we (people in general) idealize someone who appear to be capable of no wrong-doings.

Someone I deeply respect recently wrote to me and politely asked me to be aware of any projections I had/have on her. She said its because she is fallible so if I had any fantasies of her being otherwise, I have to work on removing them. Perhaps we need to load on the ideal perfection of an enlightened being on someone, not realizing that the person we look up to was / is on his or her personal journey and has the same right to mess up too.

While it's true someone who's more evolved spiritually ought to know better, we don't really know what sort of life lessons are in store for each of us at any stage of our spiritual journey.

If the quote wasn't taken out of context and read on the whole, it wouldn't seem as "judgmental"?

No.. let me edit it so it would be my own hypothesis of why I would do something like dump my ideal notions on someone else. The sentence wasn't meant to encompass the entire human population.


Ash

 

[Aeon418]

I expected to find the same problem with Crowley, so I purposely ignored the (several allegedly excellent) biographies of AC.

I've read nearly every single Crowley bio, and they are all different. The trouble with biographies is that you are not just learning about the subject of the biography. You are also learning about the likes and dislikes of the author.

Negative biographers concentrate of Crowley's faults, positive biographers concentrate of Crowley's virtues. But in either case they get in the way.

Having said that, it's still useful to know the details of Crowley's life when trying to understand his work.

 

[Aeon418]

While it's true someone who's more evolved spiritually ought to know better

Maybe, maybe not.

I'm sure you're far more "evolved" than a fly. But when it comes buzzing around your head do you politely ask it to leave you alone? Or do you just swat it?

 

[gregory]

Actually I have a friend who asks the fly to go away. And it does. I wish I could do that.

BUT - I get very frustrated by the idea that a work's value depends on the "niceness" of its creator. Beethoven treated his nephew abominably, and had a vicious temper that really hurt people. Larkin was a homophobic racist. As for Kingsley Amis....

And those are just the first three I thought of.

But I am not stopping listening to the Emperor Concerto, because that I know that, or refusing to read the Whitsun Weddings. The works stand on their merits. I think the Thoth deck is fabulous and I also find Crowley's writings fascinating. And he isn't doing anyone any harm NOW, is he ?

Baby, bathwater..........

 

[sacredashes]

Maybe, maybe not.

I'm sure you're far more "evolved" than a fly. But when it comes buzzing around your head do you politely ask it to leave you alone? Or do you just swat it?

I'd swat it... and wish I hadn't afterwards... same with mosquitoes and red ants too when they bite a chunk off of me... Does that make me evil? spiritually less evolved? Possibly. I know followers of some religions adhere strictly to harm nothing... I haven't reached that level yet

I think its easier to decide whether an "act" is evil and even so, its still a subjective opinion; but to determine if a person is evil... that's like asking if a psyhopath would commit the same heinous crimes if they weren't psychopathic; or if the person was raised under different circumstances, would the same "acts of evil" still be commited? Sorry... but I don't think I have the answers.

As for being more evolved than a fly.. biologically, you mean? Seriously, Aeon I can't say I know anything about the spirituality of a fly. (What were you thinking?!)

While it's true someone who's more evolved spiritually ought to know better, we don't really know what sort of life lessons are in store for each of us at any stage of our spiritual journey.

I do think that we all experience different things at different life stages; and someone who may have spend his entire lifetime learning texts, scriptures and living by them may not experience the same challenges (say, for example) compared with someone who may have grown up surrounded by violence or drugs.

Its just not possible to say that just because a person is "holy" that the person has already been through all the lessons that he/she needs to experience in life.. its quite unfair to assume so because we have no way of knowing what the universe intends for each of us.

Ash