Lenormand is not Tarot, obviously :)

[stella01904]

The first cards I read were Tarot. There's a certain complexity to them, you
need to look into the traditions and study a bit. So when I found Lenormand, I assumed it was the same way. I went looking for people to "teach" me and eventually ended up at a forum. (Not this one! Another one, with a "No Tarot decks!" rule, at that time. Oracle decks only. I made a few good friends there that I still talk with, but we have all left.)

It was all a sham. There are people in the reading community, as well as in the pagan community and the psychic/spiritual community in general, who will proclaim themselves "experts" and go looking for disciples. Maybe they just have a forum, maybe they offer a course, maybe they write books (ever notice how many really stupid books are out nowadays? ) - not to teach, but to aggrandize themselves. A lot of them don't even know anything to begin with. Follow them, if you must. They will try to keep you in newbie status forever. You will never surpass them (well, not according to them, anyway.) If you leave, they'll get in a big snit. Because your job (according to them) has only been to prop up their big fake ego-tower all along, not to actually learn anything. Just be a nice little sheep and follow along and keep telling them publicly how wonderful they are - maybe write a testimonial.
LOL!

Different methods are fun to look at, you can get ideas from them, you can find things you like to use at one time or another. But it is a mistake to look at them as some kind of superior knowledge. People in different areas naturally develop some different lines of thought, different ways of doing the same thing. Sometimes you want Italian food, sometimes Mexican, sometimes something else.

PJ Lenormand is universal. The Germans have a tradition, but the Brazilians can correspond the images to Orishas and Exu spirits! Everyone has some associations with dogs, trees, houses. You should not be "taught" to read! Let it come from the inside. That's all, just think for yourself. Don't let anybody tell you that you have to memorise their opinions.

 

[Skydancer]

I hear you. I know what you mean --- also about how many "stupid books" are out there these days!!! I used to think only learned people could get a book published - then found out about publishing them yourself!!! (My niece has 2 out that she's done, with her mother as her editor. I can't even get past the first chapter - ahh well.)

As for Lenormand, Kipper, Tarot and near-tarots - yes, come from the heart. But everyone has to begin somewhere. It's only later that a person can sift through and find the kernels amongst the chaff. We all had to begin somewhere. You don't know anything until you .... well, know.

Some of us here have been at this longer than others. You should see the pile of books I have here for sale! You'll be seeing a thread from me over at Trading pretty soon!!

But I hear you when you say that some people have an agenda - and others want to teach. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 pennies too. Look at all the esoteric/tarot/wholistic Yahoo Groups that have gone by the wayside ....

*S*

 

[stella01904]

I hear you. I know what you mean --- also about how many "stupid books" are out there these days!!! I used to think only learned people could get a book published - then found out about publishing them yourself!!! (My niece has 2 out that she's done, with her mother as her editor. I can't even get past the first chapter - ahh well.)

LOL! And sometimes an author has to fulfill contractual obligatitons - compare Ted Andrews' Animal Speak, which many people found useful, to his Crystal Balls and Crystal Bowls...aarrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhh.

As for Lenormand, Kipper, Tarot and near-tarots - yes, come from the heart. But everyone has to begin somewhere. It's only later that a person can sift through and find the kernels amongst the chaff. We all had to begin somewhere. You don't know anything until you .... well, know.

Yes, I kind of wandered around "kissing frogs" for awhile!

You can't be rigid with these things! People forget the cards are subjective. If you're reading for "the other woman", her lover's wife could show up in the spread as a real b***h, even if she's a Mother Teresa type.

I'm dog crazy. I speak to dogs when I pass them on the street. Often I don't speak to people, but I almost always speak to dogs. So the Dog for me would have the conventional positive slant. It might be different reading for someone who had been horribly mauled by a dog. The dog in their spread would be pain, fear, trauma.

But you knew this already. Some people don't. They just give you this rigid program and tell you it's "the right way." And if you deviate, they can be very patronizing and insulting!

I got a Gypsy Witch reading a few years ago from Enrique, he's a member here as you're probably aware. Now, if you've seen the Gypsy Witch, you know that it has interps printed on the cards. The Broken Mirror is read as horrible misfortune, but he ignored that in this case and saw it as the disconnect between myself and what I do for a living. Spot on!

Some of us here have been at this longer than others. You should see the pile of books I have here for sale! You'll be seeing a thread from me over at Trading pretty soon!!

Do they sell well here? My house is bursting at the seams, lol....

But I hear you when you say that some people have an agenda - and others want to teach. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 pennies too. Look at all the esoteric/tarot/wholistic Yahoo Groups that have gone by the wayside ....

Hey! I have an oracle group over there! And it IS very slow, lol. But it's more of an outer place to meet people we might want to bring to our bigger board.

I think I have learned more about cards from the free exchange of ideas, both here and elsewhere, than from all of the cartomancy books I've seen in my life. With the exception of Jodorowsky - he's another story altogether.

 

[Skydancer]

And who, pray tell, is Jodorowsky?? I know Jabberwocky ... is he a distant cousin?



Actually you had me do a double take there for just a second - Ted Andrews yada yada and his second book "his Crystal Balls... " and dumb me thought his what???

Oh it's going to be one of those days .... *sigh*

 

[stella01904]

And who, pray tell, is Jodorowsky?? I know Jabberwocky ... is he a distant cousin?

In a dada sort of way, probably so.
Wrote the only Tarot book you'll ever need. Among other stuff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodorowsky

Actually you had me do a double take there for just a second - Ted Andrews yada yada and his second book "his Crystal Balls... " and dumb me thought his what???

Oh it's going to be one of those days .... *sigh*

Ted Andrews wrote a book for Llewellyn some years back about animal symbology that did very well, a lot of other books cited it in their "Recommended Reading" sections and/or bibliographies. It sold a lot, everybody liked it and Llewellyn put the pressure on him to come up with some more Mahdjequeel books. So he writes this awful book about crystal gazing, you can tell he's never really done it and it's full of bum advice and pictures of him posing in robes (snicker) with his falcon and his pricey collection of crystal spheres. It also features bowls made of stone that are supposed to sing like Tibetan bowls but the idea never got off the ground, I've only seen them in that book.

I love crystal gazing. But I actually threw that book out - something I never do, I usually just let them lie in state someplace.

PS Mr. Andrews probably does think they are crystal. heheh.

 

[faunabay]

There are actually crystal singing bowls. They sound beautiful. I've heard a husband and wife team create wonderful music with crystal bowls of different sizes and made from different stones. So at least that much is true. I've never read, or seen for that matter, the Ted Andrews book you're talking about though. So can't comment on anything he says in the book.

 

[stella01904]

There's an old thread here someplace, I was looking for it...someone took Andrews advice to put their pricey stone sphere in saltwater in the sun - problem was, it wasn't quartz and it corroded....