Life's Purpose: M-Press

[isthmus nekoi]

Hey M-Press,

Ah, I see. By your definition, I would imagine even trines and sextiles as providing drive then. I liken the aspects to a communication b/w planet energies - any kind of conversation can potentially get the ball rolling.....

As for having or not having an aspect, planets who don't 'talk' in a natal chart usually have a chance to do so when transits and progressions make aspects. So just b/c you don't have a Venus-Jupiter aspect doesn't mean they will never meet up in your lifetime provided you live long enough.

I think the exercise is a fruitful one, but I've ruminated over this kind of thing a great deal (using psychology instead of astrology) and my focus has shifted. So it's not b/c I think I get it more than anyone else

 

[dadsnook2000]

Some more thoughts

Hello M-Press and the other participants. I'm back from my cruise, have a few extra pounds, a tan, and a tired body -- those cruise ships never sleep and have planned activities all day and night up until 2 am the following morning.

I'd like to offer some more thoughts relative to M-Press' chart. If this posting is too long I may have to break it into two parts.

1) The PARENTAL AXIS: There are conflicting views as to whether the 10th house represents the father or mother, and conversely whether the 4th house represents the mother or the father. My view is that it may be either way or both ways, and that the conventional family structure may no longer apply where Moon = mother and Saturn = father. There are other considerations in a chart which may suggest that one or the other is appropriate.

2) The MOON: M-Press' Moon is square the Sun but I would not just apply a standard "square" interpretation to that aspect. Let's consider the phase angle of the Moon relative to the Sun.

Moon is in a closing-square, not an opening-square, to the Sun -- or to put it another way it is a 10th house square. The "conflict" or "drive" or "intent" is to demonstate a public posture or a capability in applying the Sun-Moon dynamic. This is the "changer" phase which expresses a commitment to the future by inspiring others, being a leader by virtue of being an example.

Relative to your life's purpose, your role may be to teach your parents that success is not only possible or that success should always be pursued, but that not making the effort only cheats one's self of a life's opportunity. I'm sure that they both take pride in your efforts as well as they reflect on your approach to life versus their own.

3) MOON and SATURN: Where both Saturn and the Moon are the rulers of the 4-10 axis, let's look at Moon relative to Saturn in terms of the phase angle (just as we did above with Moon and Sun). Moon is in an opening square relationship to Saturn. This phase last from about 90 degrees from Saturn to 135 degrees from Saturn's position. We are not using aspects here, just the general phase relationship as outlined in Dane Rudyhars book "The Lunation Cycle" and the work of Marc Robertson of Seattle, WA, USA in the 1980's period.

This opening phase (a 4th house aspect) is denoted as an "activist" phase. Confrontation. A fight to drop an old identity and establish a new one. These terms suggest that M-Press is working to free herself from parental influence and to establish her own identity and purpose. Clearly this is a break from the parental influence, a very positive break.

4) The SUN: M-Press noted the Sun in the 7th and "partnerships" in an earlier posting. Relative to our goal in this exercise where we are looking at how the Sun helps to integrate chart dynamics relative to our life's purpose, we can view the Sun-in-the-7th as managing partnerships in the broad sense relative to just being partner-focused. M-Press, in my view, would tend more to work on understanding partnerships of all kinds (personal, work, artistic themes, etc.).

In this context we can look at the opposition to Saturn, the close relationships with Jupiter and Neptune, and perhaps with Mercury due to its square with the Moon (which also broadly squares the Sun). Saturn opposes Sun and is in a opposition or "seeker" phase to the Sun. Inhibition, rules, heredity and karma are all suggested -- M-Press' identity is defined by her separation from heredity (family, social imprint) and need to define rules and processes that suit her needs (especially seen in how she manages her style of artwork).

Sun is also between Jupiter and Neptune. If one were to use Ebertin's mid-point interpretation here (although the Sun is not at the mid-point in any technical sense) we would look at a negative view of this grouping. However, relative to her life's purpose, we could see the Sun as attempting to integrate a "large vision" (Jupiter-Neptune) within a clear structure (Saturn) so as to bring diverse elements together (opposition) in innovative ways (the Sun-Moon public role model).

5) SATURN opposing VENUS and JUPITER: Again, Ebertin would take a somber view of this pattern. After all, his extensive work and research occured mainly during and between the two European World Wars, and tended to be a little somber. Saturn opposing Jupiter is a "conservative" or "business-like" aspect, while Saturn opposing Venus is a "mature love" or "structured art" dynamic. M-Press already is engaged in a "structured art" endeavor and will likely also take a similar approach to any partnership-relationship building endeavor. One might speculate that she will seek either a very mature partner or one who is also in some similar field of work or life's purpose as she is.

At this point I think I've done enough food-for-thought work here and I'll let M-Press digest and apply-reject it, as well as let others offer their comments. Dave.

 

[M-Press]

Hi Dave!
Good to have you back...!!!

I didn't read your post yet, because I'm now at the airport, on my way to New York again, because my grandmother is a her "last days".
In a way, at times like these, the subject of the excersise comes up anyway... I'll have extra homework to do.

I admit I got a bit lost in my own soup here, which of course makes sense, since how can I get lost in someone else's soup???

Will respond as soon as I have a chance... So nice to have internet before boarding...I can miss my plane!!!

 

[M-Press]

Thoughts to Dave's thoughts- 1/2

Hi!
After some digestion, here are some thoughts... (following Dave's chapters).
In general, I have difficulty grasping this exercise as a WHOLE, and that may well be due to my close involvement...
I would encourage others to try this, not only in personal forum, because it has become, in spite the difficulty a new window of awareness.


1) The PARENTAL AXIS:
I didn't know there were conflicting issues about that, I always thought the Moon stands for mother, and the Sun for father...
Nevertheless, I think it makes sense that they can be either (moon, saturn) or both. In my case, i have no problem switching them. I associate my dad more with HOME, and my mum as a challenge/lesson into making her HOME. Additionally my home-making habits are mode "dad" oriented. He always cooks a big Friday night dinner for the "full-house" family.

2) The MOON:
"Moon is in a closing-square, not an opening-square, to the Sun -- or to put it another way it is a 10th house square.":
Dave, I 'm not at all familiar with the terms of closing/opening square, but your interpretation of them seems right. I really can not think of anything that can discourage me completely-(regarding "success should always be pursued".)
And when you say "changer" phase, I understand and accept the meaning of it, but not what it means astrology wise.(or is it Saturn's "change" energies?)
What makes this square a "10th house" one?

btw, i really liked the way you expressed this "not making the effort [to succeed] only cheats one's self of a life's opportunity."
I will make this my mantra for "doubting" times...

3) MOON and SATURN:
"Confrontation. A fight to drop an old identity and establish a new one... a positive break from the parental influence."
This is SO SO true, and I like the way it is defined, VS making me a rebel.

more soon...

 

[dadsnook2000]

Looking at planets within a "cycle."

For M-Press and others.

The conjunction of the Sun and Moon is called the "new moon." Using this as a starting point, the Moon moves in our charts counter-clockwise away from the Sun during the lunar month (28+ days cycle). When the Moon first appears as being "half full" in the night sky a week after new moon (or 7 days into the lunar cycle) the Moon is actually a quarter of the way through its cycle as marked by the next new moon. At this point it is square to the Sun and its movement is in the process of opening or increasing from the square or 90 degree angle. THIS IS THE OPENING SQUARE or, as it is sometimes called, the 4th house square.

A week later the Moon is in opposition to the Sun and appears to be full. It rises at about the same time the Sun sets. Another week later, three weeks after the new moon date, the Moon rises late at night and appears to be half-full -- although now its rounded side points to the east and not to the west as it did two weeks earlier.

The Moon is at this point three-quarters of the way through its lunar cycle and is again square to the Sun. This is a "closing" square -- the Moon is closing upon the Suns relative position. This is sometimes also called a "tenth house square."

Now, in his book "The Lunation Cycle", Dane Rudyhar noted eight phases of the Moon relative to the Sun. Each phase, starting at the new moon or conjunction aspect, consists of 45 degrees. While the Moon contacts each starting point (as marked in 45 degree increments) it can be looked at as expressing a new phase of its Sun-Moon-ness.

0 to 45: the PERFORMER phase.
45 to 90: the WORKER phase.
90 to 135: the ACTIVIST phase.
135 to 180: the ANALYST phase.
180 to 225: the SEEKER phase.
225 to 270: the BELIEVER phase.
270 to 315: the CHANGER phase.
315 to 360 (or 0): the PRHOPHET phase.

We can establish a thread later to explore these phases in detail relative to the Sun-Moon pairing, Saturn-Moon pairing, Jupiter-Mercury pairing, Mars-Venus pairing, Saturn-Jupiter pairing or Uranus-Saturn pairing. These are some key pairings that are advocated by Marc Robertson in his several books. Dave.

 

[dadsnook2000]

Mother-Father symbology

Each of our astrological symbols has to carry a lot of baggage. After all, there are only a limited number of "planets" to use. The aspects only count in terms of expressing and activating those symbols in certain ways. The signs are applied as "colorings" to those symbols while the houses typically are used as "areas of expression."

So, Moon is almost always used to symbolize the mother and females. Sun is used for males in general while Saturn is often used to suggest the father in particular. Mars represents the male energy and attitude in general but can easily be applied to anyone in terms of their energy and drive. Venus is often linked to the female sensitivites to harmony, balance, art, etc. but is equally applicable to anyone expressing those qualities.

The chart structure is defined, in most but not all systems, in terms of the ascending axis (Ascendant/first to Descendant/seventh) and culminating axis (MC/tenth to IC/fourth). If we apply typically used meanings to these four points in the chart we then have 1) Asc/self, 2) IC/home, 3) Dsc/others, and 4) MC/career. There are a lot of variations on these terms but the general idea is clear.

If we focus on the MC/IC axis between carrer and home we can link that to the traditional father/mother symbology through the "areas of expression" that these houses or this axis can represent. So, in a round-about manner, this axis relates to the father and mother -- or as the parental axis.

Using this axis, and its rulers we can get a variety of planets to symbolize the father and mother. We do not have to just rely on Sun/Saturn or Moon as fixed symbols for our parents. In M-Press' case the Capricorn-Cancer signs on the MC/IC axis brings the Saturn and Moon into play as representatives of her parents.

RELATIVE TO THE LIFE'S PURPOSE EXERCISE we are using only a few portions of the overall chart. This approach acts as a magnifying glass or focusing tool. We use only 1) the 10/4th house rulers (Saturn and Moon for M-Press), 2) the Moon (as her conditioning agent while young), and 3) the Sun (as her tool for integrating parental influences and conditioning).

For M-Press the Moon is used for both the parental axis 4th house ruler as a parental role model and as a conditioning and habit forming dynamic. In my own chart I had Pisces/Virgo and Neptune/Mercury as parental role model symbols while my Moon was tied into that axis by virtue of being located at the IC. There will be charts for others in which the Moon is separated from the MC/IC axis in all ways and is only used as a symbol of early life conditioning.

I hope this helps to clarify some of the details of this process. Dave.

 

[M-Press]

Dave, Thanks SO MUCH for these clarifications!!!
They really put a light to theh whole thing, and now I can even see how I can do this analysis to someone else's chart, which is what I was looking for...

And I'm so happy to know what a New Moon means now! These seem to be quite basic things, but have slipped away nevertheless!

You really connected that puzzle for me!

 

[M-Press]

Thoughts to Dave's thoughts- 2/2

4) The SUN:
"Sun-in-the-7th as managing partnerships in the broad sense relative to just being partner-focused. M-Press, in my view, would tend more to work on understanding partnerships of all kinds (personal, work, artistic themes, etc.). "
Dave, this is SO true, and it helps me put many things into perspective. It also explains my interest/tendency to mix traditions (in art, spirituality ect) , it is actually about understanding their relationship. Dave, I think you help me form my "elevator speech" here, something i never managed to define. when people ask me what is it that I do, I'm lost with no words...

"Saturn ... is in a opposition or "seeker" phase to the Sun. ... identity is defined by her separation from heredity... and need to define rules and processes that suit her needs ... Sun as attempting to integrate a "large vision" (Jupiter-Neptune) within a clear structure (Saturn) so as to bring diverse elements together (opposition) in innovative ways (the Sun-Moon public role model)."
I totally identify with that, and I'm glad I didn't do this exercise 4 years ago, because i had no clue what so ever about any of these then.

5) SATURN opposing VENUS and JUPITER:
"structured art": Quite amazing how true this is (NEVER thought of it this way...). Even with my free-style expressive art, I work on "answering questions", a very structured approach that can easily fool and be seen as "free" oriented. Even I was fooled...

Regarding what partner I will find, well, I promise to update you on this Dave! (but I definitely have gone through a phase of mature lovers!)