Magician + High Priestess ("Permanent" Pairs)

[PrincessPaulina]

Yesterday the Magician + High Priestess came up.

After researching it on-line I learned that these 2 cards are the classic "Permanent Pair" example of totally opposite cards:
while the Magician is pro-active, the HP is passive.

And like any opposites, they could possibly attract and even complement each other.

How do you see these cards together: as opposites or complementary?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
~Paulina

PS: I've posted this same question, with background & specific reading details, in the Your Readings section: here

 

[nisaba]

After researching it on-line I learned that these 2 cards are the classic "Permanent Pair" example of totally opposite cards:
while the Magician is pro-active, the HP is passive.

That's a view I've seen expressed in the last couple of years, yes. I don't personally agree with it.

She tends to be the feminine (yin/opposite number) of the high Priest/Hierophant/Pope (depending on the taste in titles of the deck-creator). The High Priestess/Papess isn't passive, either. She is a women of power and authority who, unlike the Empress, did not reach her power and authority by marrying well but by her own qualities of character and unflinching hard work through the decades. She has reached a point where she now reaps the benefit of her spiritual authority: people don't come to her and kneel before her as they do the Pope, because she is way beyond needing the affirmation of other people genuflecting before her. She is a true, active, spiritual authority with a direct connection to divinity, who has no compunction about getting off her chair and going out into the world to do what desperately needs to be done, but who always returns to her position.

If I were going to suggest "pairs" for her, I'd suggest the HP/Pope and HPS/papess are an obvious pair; also the Papess/Empress are another obvious pair: contrasting forms of feminine power - sacred and secular.

This business of the HPS being paired with the Magician is something that I've really only seen very recently - in the last two-to-three years. The Magician, as a spiritual performing-artist who plays for a paying audience, is less her match or opposite than the Pope, I'd suggest. When I first heard this pairing being tentatively suggested I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now. That being said, that is entirely my own view and you are entitled to yours, if you have thought it through and it works for you. The Magician has his natural, complementary/opposing partner in the Fool, I'd suggest - everything points that way.

Still, when drawing cards, anything can come out with anything, and I find that all cards I pull together, work together.

How do you see these cards together: as opposites or complementary?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I see them as *different*, not opposites, not any more complementary than many other pairs. I don't really see them as having a pair-ship, really.

 

[PrincessPaulina]

Hello, Nisaba!
Thanks for your thoughtful reply:
I haven't arrived at my own conclusion regarding this tricky pairing yet, but the discussion is definitely broadening my perspective.

If I were going to suggest "pairs" for her, I'd suggest the HP/Pope and HPS/papess are an obvious pair; also the Papess/Empress are another obvious pair: contrasting forms of feminine power - sacred and secular.

I definitely see where you're coming from regarding the HP/HPS and HPS/Empress pairings. As a matter of fact, I think that each is a valid pairing in its own way.
But I do sense a certain logic in the High Priestess and Magician pairing, too: they both come off as "lone operators," unlike the Pope who obviously comes from a traditional, organizational hierarchy.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these appear to be the only trump "characters" directly concerned with the faith/spirituality/psychic discovery realm:
1. Magician
2. High Priestess
3. Hierophant
4. Hermit
(I think of Temperance, Justice and Judgement more as "virtues" than personalities)

If this is correct, then the Magician, High Priestess, Hierophant & Hermit could conceivably all be paired with each other.
Or am I way off base?

 

[PAMUYA]

I do not see the Magician and High Priestess as a pair, a pair of what?

To me a Magician is the "I can", the self, the ego card, an extrovert, needing others to draw energy. The High Priestess is inner wisdom, "potential in our lives", knowledge without emotion. I have only known two "High Priestess" personally, they do not get along with many people, they are loners, needing no other energy but their own energy from wtihin. The Magician and HP would be like trying to mix water and oil. They are very different from each other, not opposites or complementary.

Each card has it's own lessons on ones spirital path. The Heirophant I see as the "shoulds" and "ought" tos' in life, the Heirophant gives you the rules are given to you to follow.
To me the Hermit gives you a journal to write your own rules to follow. Very different from each other.

You need to keep at it and find how you relate and see the cards. There is no right or wrong.

 

[nisaba]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these appear to be the only trump "characters" directly concerned with the faith/spirituality/psychic discovery realm:
1. Magician
2. High Priestess
3. Hierophant
4. Hermit

<grin> I could be very wrong indeed, but I feel that all of the Major Arcana are facets of the spiritual experience, all of them.

 

[GreenMoonBeam]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these appear to be the only trump "characters" directly concerned with the faith/spirituality/psychic discovery realm:
1. Magician
2. High Priestess
3. Hierophant
4. Hermit
(I think of Temperance, Justice and Judgement more as "virtues" than personalities)

If this is correct, then the Magician, High Priestess, Hierophant & Hermit could conceivably all be paired with each other.
Or am I way off base?

I dont think it's way off base if that is how 'you' see them. But what you might consider is that each of the Majors guides spiritually, mentally & helps in the development of the querent. From memory, I think it is Thirteen's notes here that elaborates on this.
What I feel you should do is develop how you feel about analysing what cards you get in a reading.
Blessings
GMB

 

[PrincessPaulina]

To me a Magician is the "I can", the self, the ego card, an extrovert, needing others to draw energy. The High Priestess is inner wisdom, "potential in our lives", knowledge without emotion. I have only known two "High Priestess" personally, they do not get along with many people, they are loners, needing no other energy but their own energy from wtihin. The Magician and HP would be like trying to mix water and oil.

Thanks, Pamuya, for an enlightening perspective of the Magician as extrovert, and Hig Priestess as introvert.
Actually, this makes a lot of sense to me on a personal level.

What I feel you should do is develop how you feel about analysing what cards you get in a reading.

I am not sure exactly what you mean here, GMB?
But I did post a specific reading analysis regarding this mini-spread in the YourReadings section here

 

[Lugh]

Hello, Nisaba!
Thanks for your thoughtful reply:
I haven't arrived at my own conclusion regarding this tricky pairing yet, but the discussion is definitely broadening my perspective.



I definitely see where you're coming from regarding the HP/HPS and HPS/Empress pairings. As a matter of fact, I think that each is a valid pairing in its own way.
But I do sense a certain logic in the High Priestess and Magician pairing, too: they both come off as "lone operators," unlike the Pope who obviously comes from a traditional, organizational hierarchy.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these appear to be the only trump "characters" directly concerned with the faith/spirituality/psychic discovery realm:
1. Magician
2. High Priestess
3. Hierophant
4. Hermit
(I think of Temperance, Justice and Judgement more as "virtues" than personalities)

If this is correct, then the Magician, High Priestess, Hierophant & Hermit could conceivably all be paired with each other.
Or am I way off base?

I wouldn't say that those are the only cards concerned with faith / spirituality / discovery realm. I regard the Lovers as one of the most spiritual cards, representing the alchemical marriage, and maybe it's even impossible to not regard the archetypes of most cards as working on many levels, including spiritual.

A virtue doesn't really mean it can't be a personality as well, I think. For example, I see the Star as a very spiritual personality; spirtuality based on hope (an obvious virtue). In this respect, she can be regarded the partner of the Hierophant, which respresents - among other things - spirtuality based on faith and beliefs. To me, they are both personalities as well as virtues, and even form a triangle with the empress (hope, faith, love).

Justice, I regard her more as a personality, the Goddess that holds everything in a balance, but disrupting the universe by playfully or willfully taking a step and wiggling the balance. Crowley named her as a the partner of the Fool in this respect, quite a spiritual character in itself.

 

[PrincessPaulina]

Thanks for your comments, Lugh:

I wouldn't say that those are the only cards concerned with faith / spirituality / discovery realm.

I totally agree with you here, what I meant is that they seem to be the ones "directly" concerned with the esoteric; as if the spiritual realm is their "job description"

I regard the Lovers as one of the most spiritual cards, representing the alchemical marriage

This is quite a revelation, as the Lovers seems to be one of the most mysterious cards for me. I've never thought of it as "spiritual" before, and will look into it more from this perspective.

For example, I see the Star as a very spiritual personality; spirtuality based on hope (an obvious virtue). In this respect, she can be regarded the partner of the Hierophant, which respresents - among other things - spirtuality based on faith and beliefs. To me, they are both personalities as well as virtues, and even form a triangle with the empress (hope, faith, love).

Justice, I regard her more as a personality, the Goddess that holds everything in a balance, but disrupting the universe by playfully or willfully taking a step and wiggling the balance. Crowley named her as a the partner of the Fool in this respect, quite a spiritual character in itself.

Thank you for bringing up all of these other fascinating "spiritual" combinations ~ you've provided lot's of food for thought!
However, I'm still curious about your thoughts on the original Magician / High Priestess pairing..

 

[GreenMoonBeam]

.

I am not sure exactly what you mean here, GMB?
But I did post a specific reading analysis regarding this mini-spread in the YourReadings section here

Yup! And in that thread answers were given about the cards. So from that 'you' work out or on what meanings 'you' get.

Each person answers questions differently especially with a Tarot throw. What is more important than anything is how the reader perceives meanings. So by sharing, talking,learning, we each find different meanings.
Tarot is an ongoing learning journey.
Blessings
GMB