Marseille "per se"

[Shalott]

I am wondering how certain decks became "Marseille" decks, regardless of where they were created, and some did not...I know it came primarily from Conver, but we also now refer to the Dodal, from Lyon, as a Marseille, and Noblet, from Paris, as a Marseille, yet others, from roughly the same period, are not given that title, like other regional decks like the Besancon (which I just ordered for my growing mini museum!)...
Thanks in advance!

 

[Rusty Neon]

Check out the "What makes a Marseilles?" thread (which includes relatively recent discussions) at:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=34619

 

[Astraea]

Hi Shalott. The Besancon is my personal favorite among the historical decks I've seen thus far. My understanding is that it is in the TdM family -- a cousin, if you will. Hope that you will enjoy your deck!

(Edited to add that what makes the Besancon a cousin, and not a TdM as such, is that in the Besancon deck Trump II is depicted by Juno, and Trump V by Jupiter; also, the Ace of Cups is of a different shape than the one in the TdM.)

 

[Astraea]

Here is a link to some information about the Besancon that you might find interesting: http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards28.htm

 

[Fulgour]

...regional decks like the Besancon (which I just ordered
for my growing mini museum!)...

I'd like to ask a question (probably asked and answered already),
but Shalott ~ where did you order the Besançon deck from?

 

[Fulgour]

deja vu

Here's another one I'm forever wondering about:

Tarot de Marseille
Publisher: Héron

What are we talking about when we say, Héron?

 

[Sophie]

Here's another one I'm forever wondering about:

Tarot de Marseille
Publisher: Heron

What are we talking about when we say, Heron?

A big bird with long legs and neck?
Or a French card-maker based in Bordeaux?

The popular symbolism of the heron is rather interesting...he is the one who puts his beak everywhere, and is very indiscreet; but also vigilant.

In occult symbolism he represents divine science - and is seen as close to the phoenix. Aha!

So we have divine scientists in Bordeaux? God knows their wine-growers need a bit of divine science these days!

 

[Astraea]

Fulgour, if I understand your question correctly, you are referring to a reproduction of the Conver TdM, published by Heron Maitre-Cartiers in France. The box says that it is "a copy of the 78 cards game printed in 1761 by Nicholas Conver - Card Master in Marseilles," the original of which is in the Biliotheque Nationale de Paris. It's beautiful -- warm, rich coloring and very pleasing artistic style. Tarot Garden appears to be sold out of this deck, but they usually carry it.

 

[Fulgour]

thanks

I don't believe I ever actually "saw" the Héron
Marseille until visiting this site:
http://www.alidastore.com/indexen.html
And yet it is one of the big "name drop" decks,
as in...

"Reproduction fidèle de l'authentique jeu de 78 cartes
du Tarot de Marseille édité en 1761 par Nicolas Conver
maître-cartier à Marseille et dont l'original est conservé
à la Bibliothèque Nationale de Paris." he said, aptly.

 

[jmd]

Shalott, if any thread ever comprehensively dealt with any question, there would be nothing left to either deepen discussion or allow a new one to begin that has different twists and shades.

Perhaps the simple reason the title of 'Marseille' stuck (rather than 'Lyon' or other place - in addition to 'Tarot'/'Taraux', that may also have been a place-name) is the influential printing of Marteau's (Grimaud) publication of an 'Ancient' Tarot believed to have come from the Marseille area - likely based on the Conver.

If the writings of De Gebelin in the late 18th century had been influential in the naming, another name (such as 'the book of Thoth') may have been taken up with more general usage.

In any case, with the variety of decks termed 'tarot' available, a general description for its particular type became useful for the purposes of identification, and to differentiate it from the various gaming tarot two-headed decks, the more recently appeared Wirth, the Falconnier (egyptian styled), and the predominant Eteilla decks (which were very much to the 19th century what the Waite/Colman Smith was to the 20th).