Marseilles as doomsday machine

[Tarotphelia]

Have you ever looked at the TdM major arcana and wondered if they were painting an end of the world, end times prophecy?

For example, the Moon might refer to a period similar to one that occurred in history when the earth was darkened by an immense volcanic eruption that drastically affected the climate .
The Sun might be the dawn of the nuclear age with all its' perils.
The Empress could represent times of matriarchy, the Emperor eras of patriarchy.
The Chariot, times of war .
Death the time of plague and contagion.
Judgement might refer to the colliding of dimensions of this world and the afterlife that some say is due to begin in the near future.
The World might be the ultimate card of the unification of the dimensions , where there will be no more death. And no more world either.

 

[Cerulean]

Do you mean the echoes of Biblical Revelations?

Yes, I did see allegorical stories, and yes my imagination can glimpse your suggestions. I've heard people actually like to allude to mysterious prophesies to sell/buy the fascinating Nostradamus "Marseilles", which some Marseilles fans suggest actually also reproduce another historic woodcut artisan or atlier.

Nostradamus and Marseilles

http://www.crystalinks.com/nostradamusbio.html

Nostradamus Marseilles as a historical pattern

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=24594

You might have heard that Nostradamus was a doomsday prophet and might be also interested in that meld of fancy and Marseilles.

I am fascinating by the intertwining of artful fancy and the Catholic roots of the Marseilles/Milanese patterns that made these beautiful Western heritage cards so wonderful and adaptable throughout time to such allegory-whether to some medieval Romanesque romanticism to a storylike parallel to the times we live in.

The Italian tarots circa 1450 through 1650 with 22 trumps also had the similar patterns-- of course there are variations in the Marseilles, Milanese familes. But I do have historical copies where there are Milanese and Marseilles patterns that echo the way the 22 trumps were used in a standard pattern from 1600s-through 1880s...I'll end here, but thanks for the reminder to me...I was always going to check in that Marseilles above for its relevance to me on this fascinating topic.

Regards,

Cerulean

 

[Tarotphelia]

You might have heard that Nostradamus was a doomsday prophet and might be also interested in that meld of fancy and Marseilles.

Nostradamus is fairly incomprehensible most of the time. I am not referring to any to any Catholic roots or necessarily biblical interpretations. Just looking at the majors as a whole and perhaps a reading in itself .

 

[Fulgour]

XVII L'Etoile

The nearest we come to actually seeing the Aftermath
of a Doomsday event would be on XVII L'Etoile, with the
8 "Stars" shown representing Earth and the 7 Planets.

Our view here is from beyond the greatest beyond.

This is probably one of those subjects that all the great
Marseille books that now exist but are written in French
actually makes crystal clear in vivid and profound details.

Imagine what we might learn if only we could read this:
http://www.sheluna.com/arts_tarot2.php
Perhaps it's written in a kind of code, like a blind?!
Or maybe you have to add all the letters together
to find the secret "answer" hidden in the numbers?
(Will no brave translator ever lift the veil?)

 

[Tarotphelia]

Very interesting Fulgour ! Does this also place the lady on another planet with earth as a heavenly body from her point of view? But maybe beyond the beyond means another dimension. Or maybe a time so far in the future that one can look back on Earth as a past object, as we do today searching for the origins of the big bang in space.

You could learn French of course,and tell us what those books say. Unfortunately , when I try to get a google translation of that shaluna tarot page, nothing will appear when I click on the cards, although some of the other pages come up in English. Maybe I need to download French Language support or something and see if it can be accomplished that way. Wouldn't it be funny if it were just the standard LWB interpretations?

 

[Fulgour]

Without having to look very far, you can discover numerous
adherents of a literal doom, thought to be an inherent element
in the "message" of the 22 Majors, the highly informed group
of proponents for the Book of Revelations and its universality.

 

[Strange2]

Image what we might learn if only we could read this:
http://www.sheluna.com/arts_tarot2.php
(Will no brave translator ever lift the veil?)

Here's the Altavista Babel Fish translation of that page:
--------------------
Initiatory direction:
After the loss and the destruction, the Star generates the construction in the
harmony of the universal rates/rhythms. Nature continues its work immutably and does not let itself reach or divert its task. To know to receive is the way of the realization because it is in the good exploitation of what is given to us that any progression rests.

Feel divinatoire:
At the place: Chance, providential assistance, protection. All is made easy. Explanation, inspiration, idea of genius, talents artistic. Cure.

With back: Efforts necessary. The consultant should not hope for assistance of the destiny. All the hopes remain allowed but it is necessary to fight.
--------------------

Everytime I try these automated translations, I am reminded of the Monty Python skit with the Hungarian-to-English phrasebook. "My hovercraft is full of eels!"

 

[Tarotphelia]

There are more doomsday scenarios than just the one painted in the Book of Revelations.

If I were going to play with it as a reading , perhaps I would place the Wheel in the center as a significator of events . And to be decorative I might place the rest of the cards in a circle to form a bigger wheel . Depending on point of view, if the cards are events they might be seen to be in a sequence, reaching a culmination. On the other hand, perhaps they are situations or events that occur all at once.

If we were to add movement, then we might spin the whole wheel and find the Fool meeting the World, all time occurring simultaneously , and the universe folding back in on itself. Or not.

 

[Cerulean]

Um...a tiny start to the sheluna translation

Wouldn't it be funny if it were just the standard LWB interpretations?

Après la perte et le destruction, l'Étoile engendre l'édification dans l'harmonie des rythmes universels. La nature poursuit immuablement son oeuvre et ne se laisse pas atteindre ou détourner de sa tâche. Savoir recevoir est la voie de la réalisation car c'est dans la bonne exploitation de ce qui nous est donné que repose toute progression.

Sens divinatoire :

A l'endroit : Chance, aide providentielle, protection.Tout est rendu facile. Éclaircissement, inspiration, idée de génie, talents artistiques. Guérison.

A l'envers : Efforts nécessaires. Le consultant ne
doit pas espérer d'aide du destin. Tous les espoirs restent permis mais il faut combattre.

Fermer
--------------------------------------------------------------

(I posted below before I saw someone's automated translation...my attempt isn't much better)

From the sheluna site:

Very rough...you can see it begins as a kind of cartomancy meaning...

After the loss and the destruction, the star engenders edification in the harmony of universal rhythm. The nature ... and then does not wait to return to the.. We know and receive the realization in that this...the good exploitation and our going to rest in the progression.

Chance, help, providential, protection.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for the bad partial translation... I'm not certain this is what Dark Inquisitor had in mind either. But French readers could translate from this better than my quasi-attempt.

Best wishes,

Cerulean

 

[Rusty Neon]

The "loss and destruction" that the Shéluna site's description of the XVII Star card refers to is the doom and destruction illustrated by the imagery of the XVI Tower card, the card numerically before the Tower card. Nothing in the Shéluna description suggests that the loss and destruction signified by the Tower is final; it could encompass any mundane Tower experience, just like the RWS deck's Tower card can.

By the way, I wouldn't give the commentary on the Shéluna site any special status over the multitude of English language tarot promotional sites, just because it's written in French. As in English, mileage varies.

Sorry to detour your thread, DI. I was just chiming in on the Shéluna diversion.