Minchiate Knights

[Bat Chicken]

I am with Fire Cat here... I posted this onthe other thread, but, I thought it might be more use here...

Why only the fishy part of Capricorn? Doing a little internet search I found two possibilities - one is that there is a lot of connection between Capricorn and aquatic creatures and gods (Ea/Enki and Aigipan ) - uniting earth and sea.

The other is that Capricorn has 'old knowledge', ancestral knowledge and wisdom from its watery connection. I wonder if that is what is in the cup? Only he can bring it to the surface?

Maybe he is a shapeshifter...?
The 'troubled' aspect may not be far off if you associate Capricorn with Ea/Enki - the 'confuser of languages' (Wiki). Although this reference is less seen compared to Aigipan.

 

[kwaw]

The al leone cups cavalier looks like the body of a dragon to me, see for example the picture of the Ljubljana Dragon for the bodies dragon and wings and the Dragon of Terni for the fish like tale here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_dragon

the batons a lion, the coins a leopard/panther, the swords a horse.

The panther was itself considered to be a hybrid between a lion and a pard, and was sometimes used in heraldry for those born illegitimately. Hybrids of Man and beast were said to signify the state of fallen man: prey to the appetites and inclinations of the beast below him.

The symbolism of the panther, horse, dragon and lion according to medieval bestiaries:

leopard
http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast79.htm

horse
http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast212.htm

dragon
http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast262.htm

lion
http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast78.htm

 

[jackdaw*]

I like the astrological relation to Capricorn (I hesitate to call it a correspondence), although it confuses me. I guess I have a set Capricorn personality type in my mind (my ex was a textbook case) that I have a great deal of difficulty reconciling with this knight.

But Batty, that's an excellent tidbit there, about the uniting of earth and sea. This adds a nice little nuance to this card.

And thanks for those bestiary links kwaw. Somewhere in my travels I stumbled across a note to the effect that the lion was an emblem of Venice. I got to thinking about the different little mythological and fabled symbols in various minor cards. Like Remus and Romulus (Rome), the elephant (Siena). So perhaps the lion feet are meant to be a tie to Venice? Watery, sinking Venice - I think that would be a nice touch.

 

[firecatpickles]

Hmmm, a connection to the four great cities of Pisa, Florence, Rome and Venice...

The elemental associations is what confuse me, especially in readings

 

[jackdaw*]

Hmmm, a connection to the four great cities of Pisa, Florence, Rome and Venice...

I could see this appealing to Brian Williams when he created his Minchiate; he did this with his Renaissance Tarot deck.

 

[firecatpickles]

Hybrids of Man and beast were said to signify the state of fallen man: prey to the appetites and inclinations of the beast below him.

This really solves the mystery for me.

Could there be some satire going on? Imagine the Knights represent particular cities.

Yesterday I was reading Sophie's book The Fantastic Menagerie Tarot about J.J. Grandville. In it, she explains how artists historically have used metamorphosis as satire.

 

[firecatpickles]

I could see this appealing to Brian Williams when he created his Minchiate; he did this with his Renaissance Tarot deck.

But then why did he change one his Knight of Wands from a lion to a horse? Kinda makes me think he missed the "beastiary" connection kwaw found.

He also missed the planetary rulership pattern in the zodiac sequence, btw.

 

[jackdaw*]

Yeah, I think that was an oversight on his part (the Knight of Staves, I mean).

Planetary rulership? Think I need to do more reading. I know enough about astrology to read my horoscope.

As for the satire, I think that was entirely likely. After all, you call a deck of cards "minchiate" with all its rude connotations, and you can't expect it all to be serious

 

[firecatpickles]

Yeah, I think that was an oversight on his part (the Knight of Staves, I mean).

Planetary rulership? Think I need to do more reading. I know enough about astrology to read my horoscope.

Here: http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=132929, but you have to look at the way the planets align (no pun intended?) horizontally, diagonally and symmetrically.

As for the satire, I think that was entirely likely. After all, you call a deck of cards "minchiate" with all its rude connotations, and you can't expect it all to be serious

Exactly!

 

[jackdaw*]

Ack. Head hurts ...

*Wandering off into link-land, never to be seen again*