Minchiate - Magician

[Moonbow]

This is an invite to everyone who wants to join in with a study group on this very special deck of cards. We have already discussed a few of them in a thread in Using Tarot Cards which is here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21032

and then decided we could do with a 'special place' for them so here it is. Please post your thoughts on this card here ready to open up a discussion about it.

 

[MystiqueMoonlight]

Could someone here please add an image of the card we are discussing for those people who may not have the deck yet?

I have the Eturia but am unable to add images.


Thanks

 

[Moonbow]

I'm going to have a try with the card link - never done this before - so watch this space

 

[Moonbow]

Magician - Etruria version:

 

[full deck]

The progression from fool to magician

As per an earlier post, one can see a kindred nature in the imagery between the fool and the magician. The attached image is from the Solleone "The New Minchiate of Firenze". Notice the similarity in the placement of the two boys and the two men in each card as well as the similar design of the fool and magician's tunic. The similarity is more pronouced in this minchiate version but it can be found in the others as well. Perhaps the difference is in one does not know he is a fool and the other knows he is fooling others. This kinship is completely lost in the Marseilles cycle as well and takes on a much more metaphysical depth in terms of how the images are portrayed.

 

[Moonbow]

Hi fulldeck

I actually like your Minchiate deck alot - and the comparison with the Fool and Magician cards are more apparent, I think, in the Solleone than the Etruria - but they are still there, as you say. It seems that studying this deck may be similar to the Marseilles in that it is sometimes better to look at a number of cards together than individually. I find this with the pips mainly.

The Fool and Magician are very similarly dressed particularly their headgear, and in the Etruria, could even be the same person. What I find is interesting in the comparison is the underlying expression of the cards. The Fool is on the same level as the children whereas the Magician is authoritive - he seems to be strongly puting his point across (there is definately some interaction from one of the children in the card). I can't put a link to the Fool at the moment but here is a link to all the Majors:


http://www.tarot.org.il/Minchiate Etruria/

 

[MystiqueMoonlight]

Also if you take a close look at the Magician the elements are evident; earth, air , fire and water.

He seems to be manipulating them to his own devices and to the seemingly amazement of the two observers.

The separation of the table between him and the two onlookers may also suggest a level of authority or could it be a barrier of some sort. Whereas the Fool has no barrier.

 

[lionette]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for posting links, for those of us who are still deckless!

I've noticed that the Fool and Magician are looking down toward the viewer's right. Most of the other trumps are looking/facing the opposite direction. Interestingly in the Marseilles deck, these two face in opposite directions, with the Bateleur changing view to turn to the left (viewer's). Significant, maybe?? I vaguely remember reading somewhere about the direction potentially having a meaning.

Does anyone recognize what the child behind the fool is holding? Does it look like some sort of weapon -- or is it being held in a threatening manner? I'm viewing the cards online and some details are not clear.

All three figures in the Fool card are barefoot, barely dressed, totally informal, which is also in contrast to the Magician and his audience.
[edited to add: The clothing, or lack thereof, implies a difference of setting too -- the Magician in an urban setting whereas the Fool card is more likely in a country setting.]

 

[Macavity]

Re: Hi Everyone

Does anyone recognize what the child behind the fool is holding?

I think there's a sort of concensus on that one being a (medieval!) "whirlygig" - Perhaps symbolic of AIR? I can't remember where, but I did see a reference to that recently...

Macavity

 

[full deck]

The benefit of hindsight

One ideal that occurs to me is that we view the minchiate with certain apriori associations, such as the four sacred elements and the influences of several centuries of thought associated with a more developed form of esoteric semantics, all derived from later commentators upon the Tarot. I'm not really sure if it is a good thing to consider the whirlygig things as implying something about the air element since I'm not sure how the original creator of the image thought. I still have the sense that the fool is just a jerk, yanking away the kids toy, whereas the magician is taking the guys money, right in front of them! Cheeky monkey that one . . .

This is why I stress that the minchiate is a precursor to the symbolism of the Marseilles pattern and, though there is depth within the minchate, I have the impression (without the benefit of research) that there is a more playful, earthly sense of jest within the imagery. Consider the fool/magician similarities and the image on top and at the bottom of the Wheel of Fortuna or even the sly implications of the Chariot herein. It is more Italian in taste, more earthly and tongue in cheek.

Being somewhat lazy, I should PM Diana and Mari, et al and beg their consideration on these issues right away. At least it would make for more people in our thread.