"Misunderstood" Devil (cont'd) .... To Thine Own Self Be True

[catdoc]

The Devil may represent that part of ourselves which we judge and reject, for whatever reason.
Moongold

Or, perhaps the Devil is that part of ourselves which we are unwilling to examine and accept......How much easier it is to believe that temptation or restriction comes from without rather than from within.

 

[Diana]

The Devil indeed tells us often "To Thine Own Self Be True."

We are so brainwashed by society to conform to norms and morals and so-called ethics (which are often so unethical). We end up by turning against ourselves. We feel guilt when we should be feeling proud. We shut out mouths when we should be speaking up. We bow down to authority when we should be kicking them off their pedestals.

The Devil tells us: "Just be true to what you believe in...."

And don't listen to that little angel that whispers in your ear: "But what would Mummy/God/the Neighbour/ say if she heard you... or saw you...".

Sometimes we are being much more honest to ourselves when we listen to the Devil.

The Devil can be your biggest ally. Never get tricked into thinking that he's not. He can help you move mountains.

(edited to add: I've just re-read skytwig's first post, and realise that what I said she has already said. I apologise - I had read her post yesterday and had forgotten the details. One thing is for sure, we pretty much agree. But then when it comes to interpreting Tarot cards, skytwig and I often do.)

 

[full deck]

I third this

I'm in agreement, isthmus!

Yes, Western Civilization from the Greeks on have deplored excess materialism and pushed abstanance and sacrifice as a way to gain spirituality. Christianity took this to an extreme, requiring that religious folk not only abstain from the pleasures of the flesh, but actively seek out pain in the form of hair shirts, cold, bare sleeping and self-flagallation. . . .

Which brings us back to what isthmus said. Which is, essentially, that we should take the Devil for what and who he is. Remove the "EVIL" label without swinging to the other side and replacing it with a "GOOD!" label. The Devil is both and neither. He is the taste, experience and enjoyment of the flesh, our natural lusts and desires for things, or need to be wild now and then. But he's also our addictions--our need to buy and buy and buy things in an often vain attempt to fill a void or find happiness in a new toy.

He is materialism--and all the good or bad it has to offer us.

This is a really good exposition on the theme of materialism that is inherent in the "Devil": "husk", the tower of Babel -- form devoid of content or, for lack of a better common word -- spirit. A mindless bureaucracy that often exists in a government is a very good example of such it seems. Being the case, both Greece and Korea are extremely evil places to live in

I see a danger in some of the definitions offered though, "being natural" is not necessarily a good thing, i.e., death and disease are natural but I don't see many extolling its virtues. Without discernment, all those "natural" blandishments are folly. One can do what they will but they had better damn well know what they are doing and should not be engaged in any wispy thinking!

 

[skytwig]

We are so brainwashed by society to conform to norms and morals and so-called ethics (which are often so unethical). We end up by turning against ourselves. We feel guilt when we should be feeling proud. We shut out mouths when we should be speaking up. We bow down to authority when we should be kicking them off their pedestals.

Self betrayal!!!! How 'evil' is that!? Looking at it from the vantage point of The Tarot, I can see how the Devil would be a card that calls us to Truth..... but not because we are being 'bad' or naughty or even excessive...... But because we are leaving our own soul behind!!!

The Devil tells us: "Just be true to what you believe in...."

And don't listen to that little angel that whispers in your ear: "But what would Mummy/God/the Neighbour/ say if she heard you... or saw you...".

Sometimes we are being much more honest to ourselves when we listen to the Devil.

Yup, yup, yup.....


What has bothered me about the standard interpretations of this card is the seeming smallness of those interpretations..... To tell you the truth, they seem to be something that would better serve in a minor card.

 

[Thirteen]

Re: I third this

death and disease are natural but I don't see many extolling its virtues.

Hey, I'll be Devil's advocate again Disease: getting a disease can build up the immune system so you don't fall prey to a worst disease. It is currently thought that decendents of survivors of Small Pox victims going all the way back to the middle ages might be immune to the AIDs virus. I'm sure these folk are very grateful that they're anestors contracted and survive Small Pox.

Death. Please. Haven't you ever seen "Death Takes a Holiday"? Would you want everyone and everything on earth to be immortal?

 

[Moongold]

Or, perhaps the Devil is that part of ourselves which we are unwilling to examine and accept......How much easier it is to believe that temptation or restriction comes from without rather than from within.

Hi catdoc,

Yes I can see where you're coming from here.

However, I was thinking of more positive qualities and strengths that people are sometimes loath to see in themselves. It's quite common to do this. I work in field where people have been very damaged. If you ask them to describe something negative about themselves they usually have no difficulty but if you ask them to nominate something good, they often really struggle.

In terms of Skytwig's suggestion to think of the Devil in a more postive light, seeing him as representing this often good and constructive aspect of ourselves that we often can't see, may be agood way of doing so.

Also, as I said in my post, the Devil has the Third Eye open so he is able to see truth, and I guess this means that he would see good as well as bad, and all the way along the continuum.


Moongold

 

[full deck]

Hummm . . .

Death. Please. Haven't you ever seen "Death Takes a Holiday"? Would you want everyone and everything on earth to be immortal?

Perhaps for a little while . . . and then the movie is a bit poetic in nature.

 

[Imagemaker]

There's a famous quote, don't know who said it, that goes something like:

Most people who want to be immortal don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.

 

[isthmus nekoi]

I think the idea that the devil represents the 'shadow' aspect is a little inaccurate. I don't think the Devil represents what is difficult to accept in oneself unless the individual in question has great difficulty valuing the ego/materialism. This may often be the case, but I do not think this card's focus is on judgment or morality which is implied when one talks about shadow aspects or acceptance of repressed values. For a person who highly values qualities associated with the Devil (say, valuing gluttonous behaviour), their shadow side might be more accurately be portrayed by the angel of Temperance!

 

[Moongold]

I think the idea that the devil represents the 'shadow' aspect is a little inaccurate. I don't think the Devil represents what is difficult to accept in oneself unless the individual in question has great difficulty valuing the ego/materialism. This may often be the case, but I do not think this card's focus is on judgment or morality which is implied when one talks about shadow aspects or acceptance of repressed values. For a person who highly values qualities associated with the Devil (say, valuing gluttonous behaviour), their shadow side might be more accurately be portrayed by the angel of Temperance!

Hi Isthmus,

I would not normally think of the Devil in terms of "Shadow". This was simply an exercise trying to think of Devil in a more beneficial way as per Skytwig's suggestion. In this particular context I was thinking more of aspects to do with the ego, and not in quite as Jungian a sense as you might be.

Moongold