New Age Thoth Clones: Split off from Crowley Biographies

Lillie

Le Fanu said:
Don't worry, Ross. I was being snarky. It was me!..;))


The Majors are - well - like Majors of any system really. Just typical 21st Century Majors. Perhaps only the High Priestess's arrows of Artemis is - taking out the Thoth - unusual for a HP card. So there may be a Thoth reference there. Also, the scans I had seen on-line didn't look particularly anything. It was only when I had the deck in my hand that I noticed.

To be honest, it is in the book where I most sense it, though as others have pointed out it is more Golden Dawn than Thoth except most typical RWS-based decks don't quite opt for those meanings, of satiety, debauch, pleasure..

But in the minors, you get a vague sense that this is what is being referred to. The 2 of Wands/Sceptres is definitely Dominion; Butch, muscled tattoed warrior grasping spear with mighty force. That's not typical RWS. 10 of Grails/Cups definitely shows a woman Satiated (not a rainbow), Nine of Knives/Swords shows blood running down the back wall. 4 of Skulls/Disks shows an austere, regimented fortess with high walls (oh and sultry vampyre and "Powerful" sentry). Just little things like this which I don't think are accidental. There are others...
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Ah, thanks.

I've only seen the majors, on that facebook page that's linked at the beginning of the big thread.

I noticed the posture of the world/universe card is a bit Thothy, the cauldron on Temperance/art.

But that sort of stuff crops up in other decks.

It also (and this would do my head in) has the astrological etc glyphs on the cards. Except it has pluto instead of air on the fool, even though it has water on the hanged man.
And I couldn't find one at all on the tower or judgement/aeon.

I have to write the titles like that, the scans I saw had no titles, so I don't know what these cards are actually called.

Anyhow, that inconsistency in the symbols would drive me mad. I'm anal like that.

Still, pretty enough art.
 

Grigori

Lillie said:
Anyhow, that inconsistency in the symbols would drive me mad. I'm anal like that.
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Along a similar line of thought, we do have a number of people reintroducing the GD material into RWS clones of late. Unfortunately it seems this is a response to increased interest in the GD material and not because the author is familiar with the system. There are then copying mistakes when they insert things like the astrology glyphs into cards. This annoys the bejeebus out of me, because it makes a deck unusable for me, I'd rather such things were just left off :(

Maybe this is the direction things will take, more and more bits and pieces of the GD and Thoth decks will show up in RWS inspired decks, with varying degrees of success.
 

Lillie

I sold my hermetic recently, so I can't check (I never used it so it was better gone), but I believe that has pluto on the fool, but does it also have neptune on the hanged man and uranus on judgement/aeon?

Because really, I can deal with either. the three extra planets, or the three elements for the mother letter cards.
It's the inconsistency that does my head in!

I'm off to find a hermetic on line so as I can check.

Anyway, shouldn't a GD deck have Andromeda on the lovers?
Personally I find this the most characteristic thing in the GD decks I have seen.

The vampire deck just has a pair of lovers, so neither Crowley no GD, nor even RWS, just the most obvious interp of the name without any real understanding of the card in any context.
And they have added a deaths head moth motif as a nod toward a little liebestod darkness. Which is cute... but a bit Hannibal Lector.

Anyway, off to find a hermetic on line.

Edit.
Ah, right.
The Hermetic has both. The elements and the last three astro glyphs.
 

Pagan X

Le Fanu is my favorite snarkist!

Though Lillie has utterly put the last nail in the coffin for me with Hannibal Lector. O delightful froggie!
 

Lillie

:D

I just never knew about them moths till that film. Now they are forever connected in my mind.

Like Hello Kitty. My husband can't think of Hello Kitty without thinking of dead women and severed heads.
It's a matter of association.
 

Grigori

Lillie said:
I sold my hermetic recently, so I can't check (I never used it so it was better gone), but I believe that has pluto on the fool, but does it also have neptune on the hanged man and uranus on judgement/aeon?
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Yeah, putting Pluto, Uranus and Neptune anywhere is a bit unorthodox as they weren't around at the GD's peak, so people use different systems.

It makes sense to me to put airey Uranus on the airey Fool, watery Neptune on the watery Hanged man and firey Pluto on the firey Judgement, but some folks disagree. On the Hermetic Pluto is Fool. Uranus is Judgement and Neptune Hanged Man.
 

Pagan X

Lillie said:
:
Like Hello Kitty. My husband can't think of Hello Kitty without thinking of dead women and severed heads.
It's a matter of association.
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I don't think I want to Trick-or-Treat at your house anymore.

So, Ross, the Vampyres tarot may be, shudder, Satanic?!?

Thank you for your thoughtful response...quite interesting stuff.
 

Ross G Caldwell

Pagan X said:
So, Ross, the Vampyres tarot may be, shudder, Satanic?!?

Thank you for your thoughtful response...quite interesting stuff.
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LOL, thanks. - I guess, insofar as it uses the glamorous mystique of Goth as a way to move merchandise, LaVey would approve.

But on the scale of Satanism, LaVey's brand is American Idol... so I imagine the Vampyre deck is just as devoid of hard-core doctryne.
 

Aeon418

Grigori said:
The deck seems clearly Thoth inspired to me, though there is not apparently acknowledgment of this other than perhaps the name
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The Aeon is interesting. But does it depict a continual birth process, a state of ever Becomming? (The Aeon)

Or death and resurrection? (Judgement)

I think I'm leaning towards the first one.
 
Books/sources for deeper relationship with Thoth? Mr. Crowley!