Paul Marteau's Book and Deck (mystery of the 4 of Coins and the Magician)

Rusty Neon

Further in this matter, I was just reading an article on JC Flornoy's website.

http://letarot.com/pages/65-les_heritiers_de_nicolas_conver.htm

Apparently, the first edition of Marteau's book was published in 1929, illustrated with the card images from the 1890-colours Camoin Conver. [The article shows the first page of the Magician commentary from the 1949 edition, which still used the 1890 Camoin.]

JC Flornoy suggests that, because Marteau's analysis and commentary on the Tarot de Marseille was based on 1890 colours, this is why Marteau felt compelled, in own 1930 deck, to use the 1890 rather than the 1760 colours.

[Note: Marteau, in his 1930 deck, did change the colours somewhat from the 1890 Camoin Conver. For example, the top left corner angel has a blue and red vestment in the 1890 Camoin Conver, while in the 1930 Marteau deck, the red in the vestment is white instead. As mentioned in the posts above, there are also design differences, such as the question of the shield in the 4 of Coins and the question of the dice in the Magician card. The question remains as to whether any changes to the text of the book were made after 1929. If the 1929 edition - based on the 1890 Camoin - was describing the vestment of the angel in the World card it presumably would have mentioned a blue and red vestment. However, my 1977 edition of the book refers to the vestment as being blue and white. As well, as noted in posts above, quaere whether the commentary for the 4 of Coins and the Magician also has been slightly altered.]

P.S.: Thanks, Strange2, for your reply on the Hadar question.
 

Minervasaltar

This is very strange indeed!

I have the 1949 edition of the book, and the picture on the 4 of coins indeed shows 3 fleurs de lys, which are also mentioned in the text. So the change to the tulip in the centre has happened somewhere after 1949.

What puzzles me is that, on the magician, the thingies on the table (not clearly coins, but definately no dices) are flesh-coloured, while the text describes them as yellow!

So Marteau must have had the renewed deck (with yellow dice) in his head when writing the book, although he put the older pictures in them.

Edited to add: The pictures in my book are from the Conver 1760.
 

Fulgour

"Grimaud" overlaps Bateleur

Hello :) Minervasaltar!

Marteau may have been inspired by
a deck which Grimaud appropriated:
 

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  • Lequart Arnoult Grimaud - three cards.jpg
    Lequart Arnoult Grimaud - three cards.jpg
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Minervasaltar

Hi Fulgour! :)

Thanks for the scans. I never saw that version.

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean that Grimaud 'stole' that deck by Arnoult? Who is Arnoult anyway?

And why did Marteau put the 1760 version of Conver in his book then, and not this version of Arnoult?

Maybe I'm asking stupid questions here, but you'll have to forgive me, I'm only a beginner. ;-)
 

Fulgour

Other of our scholars know better what the connection
and time-line is on questions of Grimaud and Arnoult...

reference: Tarot de Marseille - Marteau Grimaud,
informations for collectors - Aeclectic Tarot:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=57491

:)
 

Minervasaltar

Thanks! :)