PKT:Secret Trad#1 - Study Group

[fixedair]

Mono Atomic Gold

Perhaps there were physical substances identified with the famous alchemical elixirs. That is not so far fetched. Whether or not one of them was mono atomic gold is a question for archaeologists and historians. I have not seen strong evidence of this, but that does not mean it does not exist.

I think where we should be careful is to not assign causation of spiritual progress to a physical substance unless there is proof (scientific evidence) of physical changes. What I mean by that is just because your special white powder gives some benefit does not mean the benefit comes from the powder. More likely it comes from the intention, will, and belief of the person consuming it.

The placebo effect is very well documented and scientific trials (double blind, control group) are designed to isolate it.

If mono atomic gold has special physical properties then scientists should be able to detect these changes. I've seen no such strong scientific evidence, but that does not mean it does not exist.

But if not, then the entire operation is on the astral or spiritual or soul plane to begin with. You can save your money and turn your Eggo Waffle into the Elixir of Life with will, intention, and belief. I'm serious too, Bardon talks about this.

I hope I haven't derailed things further. My point is that if you are making claims about a physical substance, then that requires strong physical (scientific) proof. If not then it's all operating on the higher levels of manifestation (astral or soul) and I think that is what Waite is getting at in the PKT.

e: This goes for anything physical making claims. I've seen people selling electronic frequency generators to charge their tarot spreads. Probably the same people selling this powder. The physical is charged from the higher realms, not the other way around in my opinion. Our belief and intention makes it so.

 

[Richard]

20. "Mr. MacGregor Mathers, who once published a pamphlet on the Tarot, which was in the main devoted to fortune-telling, suggested that the twenty-two Trumps Major could be constructed, following their numerical order, into what he called a "connected sentence."

21. "It was, in fact, the heads of a moral thesis on the the human will, its enlightenment by science, represented by the Magician, its manifestation by action—a significance attributed to the High Priestess—its realization (the Empress) in deeds of mercy and beneficence, which qualities were allocated to the Emperor.

22. "He spoke also in the familiar conventional manner of prudence, fortitude, sacrifice, hope and ultimate happiness.

23. "But if this were the message of the cards, it is certain that there would be no excuse for publishing them at this day or taking the pains to elucidate them at some length."

Waite seemed to have little patience with mundane moralistic interpretations of the Mysteries. He regarded it as a degeneration of Freemasonry that the true meaning of its profound symbolism had been ignored and forgotten and replaced with insipid moral teachings. (See his Masonic writings.) A similar thing has happened with the Christian sacraments, particularly the Eucharist, which Waite mentions in Azoth, The Hidden Church of the Holy Grail, and other writings..

 

[Abrac]

Yelell, I believe he's saying he disagrees with Mathers and Papus. He thinks Papus is more on the right track than Mathers, but his method is still flawed. This sentence shows his intent, "Two writers have adopted the first view without prejudice to the second, and I shall do well, perhaps, to dispose at once of what they have said." By "dispose" he means toss out.

 

[Teheuti]

Waite seemed to have little patience with mundane moralistic interpretations of the Mysteries. He regarded it as a degeneration of Freemasonry that the true meaning of its profound symbolism had been ignored and forgotten and replaced with insipid moral teachings. (See his Masonic writings.) A similar thing has happened with the Christian sacraments, particularly the Eucharist, which Waite mentions in Azoth, The Hidden Church of the Holy Grail, and other writings..

I agree. This is probably why he talked so frequently (in his other writings) about the "arch-natural Eucharist" - to separate it from the Eucharistic act that most people experienced every Sunday without any consideration of its spiritual message.

You might say that a good part of the Secret Tradition is simply a "re-membering" and partaking of the deeply spiritual original meanings of myth and ritual.

 

[INIVEA]

Waite seemed to have little patience with mundane moralistic interpretations of the Mysteries. He regarded it as a degeneration of Freemasonry that the true meaning of its profound symbolism had been ignored and forgotten and replaced with insipid moral teachings.

I agree with this.

 

[INIVEA]

It seems that we are being asked to accept that mono-atomic gold is the white (and black) powder mentioned in alchemical tracts and its characteristics and effects are specifically what Waite refers to whenever he mentions alchemy or the philosopher's stone (?).

Yes

He knew that The Book of Lambspring and/or the Mutus Liber was actually referencing mono-atomic gold and therefore we should be making a study of its charcteristics as professed since 1975 (when it was supposedly "rediscovered" by David Hudson) in order to understand Waite's intentions for the Tarot (since Waite already knew of it). Am I correct in thinking this?

Well kinda Yes, I think this would be an interesting subject that is worth investigation into this further, but not that we study / investigate it here, can be looked into it later in another thread.

And that the powders and stone mentioned by the alchemists that Waite surveys in his several works on Alchemy have all been proven to have been mono-atomic gold?

Yes, as in a very good possibility, worth investigating into it. Why not? Who's afraid of this to having some truth behind it?

Added: Personally I don't believe this is the case. IMO, any further discussion of mono-atomic gold will just get us more off-topic.

This should very much be worth acknowledging and that it very well may have facts to it.

What one's personal opinion, shouldn't be the be all and end all.

That this shouldn't be so quickly disregarded, and swept under the rug, and ignored and forgotten. There's is high potentiality this to be true. Thee End.

Lets carry on.

 

[Yelell]

Yelell, I believe he's saying he disagrees with Mathers and Papus. He thinks Papus is more on the right track than Mathers, but his method is still flawed. This sentence shows his intent, "Two writers have adopted the first view without prejudice to the second, and I shall do well, perhaps, to dispose at once of what they have said." By "dispose" he means toss out.

Yes, I just figured he disagreed not with the idea of the numbered sequence but how they implemented it?

 

[Teheuti]

Yes, I just figured he disagreed not with the idea of the numbered sequence but how they implemented it?

It's hard to know what Waite thought about the sequence at this point in his life, although we know he wasn't convinced of the GD's Kabbalistic correspondences. For his later Fellowship of the Rosy Cross (1917?), he created a new set of images (the Trinick cards) that had an entirely different order when laid on the Tree of Life and were used only for ritual purposes.

 

[INIVEA]

It's hard to know what Waite thought about the sequence at this point in his life, although we know he wasn't convinced of the GD's Kabbalistic correspondences. For his later Fellowship of the Rosy Cross (1917?), he created a new set of images (the Trinick cards) that had an entirely different order when laid on the Tree of Life and were used only for ritual purposes.

There are a few not just Waite, that wasn't in agreement with Kabbalistic correspondences, There are many different trees of life, with different ordering of the cards when laid on the tree of life.

It's a fact that their is disagreements, and it is difficult to know which is the correct order.

The only agreement is that there is 22 Hebrew letters, and 22 Major Arcana Cards. (The rest is questionable), as to which paths they are laid upon.

 

[Teheuti]

Re: Mono-atomic gold.

Yes, as in a very good possibility, worth investigating into it. Why not? Who's afraid of this to having some truth behind it?

Yes, please start another thread on this topic! It's well worth investigating. At this time, I don't see any evidence that directly suggests that this is what Waite was talking about in PKT and in regards to the Tarot. Truly I fear that such a discussion in this study group would hi-jack the purposes of the group, which is to go through PKT clarifying Waite's intent for the RWS deck, beginning with "The Tarot and Secret Tradition."

I don't see why other topics, with their own threads, can't spin off this one, especially if they threaten to derail this one.