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jmd said:As to Masonic stuff.... perhaps, like Frieda Harris and numerous theosophical-oriented women, Colman Smith was a Freemason.
You have any evidence she was a co-mason?
jmd said:As to Masonic stuff.... perhaps, like Frieda Harris and numerous theosophical-oriented women, Colman Smith was a Freemason.
But, see, here's the thing: No one is diminishing Smith. To say that much or most of the symbolism in the RWS deck was contributed by Waite does nothing to diminish Smith. I believe in the entire history of the forum, you will find no one who has said a negative word about Smith. Some people may not like her art, but nobody has said anything negative about her personally.Fulgour said:And all I'm doing is taking the same accepted facts
used to raise Waite and diminish Smith and reversing
the import of the arguments conclusions.
But, you see, this is not evidence that he stole the credit. The fact that he says he is alone is responsible is evidence that he was indeed solely responsible. Unless he is lying, of which there is no evidence. You can say "Waite stole the credit" a million times, it doesn't change the fact that without evidence that he's lying, the most reasonable position is to assume he's telling the truth.And if we read Waite's "Key to th Tarot" we can find
where he (in his round about way) steals all the credit
for her work, saying, "I alone am responsible."
Hmm... "grinning ogre" ... "steals all the credit" ... "drank himself to death" ... whose tone did you say was high-pitched?Not as a co-worker, but as a grinning ogre. [...] The interesting thing here is that arguments against mine take on a rather high pitched tone, very self-righteous.
Thank you for providing some evidence of something. Unfortunately this evidence is not convincing. First of all, the quoted author himself classifies it as gossip. Secondly, this does not say that Waite drank himself to death, nor that no one cared. Thirdly, it does not explain why any of this is relevant to whether Waite stole credit for the deck or told the truth."This was about 1929 and there was current gossip
that he had already taken to the bottle."
All just basic debate tactics, point-counterpoint, turnabout,Lee said:-- Lee
I knew it! You were just having fun!Fulgour said:It's so much more fun than answering every question by
quoting from a book... "Golden Dawn blah blah blah blah"
In other words, you approve of Waite because he was a mason,jmd said:In any case, to refer to the deck as the Pamela Colman Smith deck, given that she only ever made one, clearly identifies which deck Fulgour is referring to. I personally, of course, consider the Waite as important in the overall design as Colman Smith, acknowledging the conceptual influx from Waite, and the artistic alteration and creation as Colman Smith's.
As to Masonic stuff.... perhaps, like Frieda Harris and numerous theosophical-oriented women, Colman Smith was a Freemason.