Tarocco Bolognese

[Ross G Caldwell]

What strikes me as VERY interesting about the cards pictured in the link above (repeated here):http://www.geocities.com/anytarot/earlybologna.html is the LACK OF TITLES and barely noticable numbers.

While I'm sure the double-sided cards are lovely, but what a rare gem these full images are! In fact, there are so many interesting details about these images I would love to see images from an entire deck.

Do the images exist anywhere? Is a Bolognese deck published that is full faced and without titles????

thanks,
robert

ps
Justice in color:
http://www.albamontuori.it/t_giustizia.htm

I think the only Bolognese published like that is the Mitelli. I got Il Meneghello's version a couple of weeks ago - in Bologna! I'm very happy about it.

But the early version at my webpage above is not complete (I think there might be 48 cards or something)... a complete Tarocchino Bolognese, full-faced and complete (62 cards) is reproduced in color in Vitali and Zanetti "Il tarocchino di Bologna" (Bologna, Edizioni Martina, 2005). It is from the 18th century, is called "Al Leone", and it is the only complete full faced Tarocchino Bolognese I know of.

Of course, this one has "Moretti" instead of "Papi", but that is not important, since in Bolognese divination, only two Moors are ever used (all four are equal in play).

 

[Moonbow]

This would be an interesting deck to read with and since Ross has kindly translated the meanings for the cards on Tarotpedia it doesn't seem an impossible thing to do now. I'm sure there must be people on Aeclectic who read with this deck so I would be interested to know how you read it and are finding it as a reading deck. It fascinates me that this can be used for divination deck as well as for gaming.

Lee, I know some time has passed but how did you get on with this deck after all?

For those interested in having a go, here is Ross' translation of the divinitory meanings:

http://www.tarotpedia.com/wiki/Bolognese_Tarot_Divination

These meanings can also be used for the Mitelli decks by Dal Negro and Il Meneghello which are a little more to my taste for reading. Here is a review with some images:

http://www.tarotpassages.com/mitelli.htm

 

[Rosanne]

Hi MoonBow!

Since Le Pendu introduced me to the Mitelli - I have been using them in a simple Fortune Telling way in the manner of Ross's meanings list. Those that do not having meaning I have thought about and have made a simple keyword.
It is a refreshing aspect of Tarot to be able to do this.
I like this statement..

Divinatory meanings are based on a single keyword and its associations (i.e. they are simple rather than complex (invoking correspondences with other divinatory or esoteric systems).

I prefer sexual energized woman to whore as Regina of Batons for example.
Asso Denari = Financial Prudence
Re = Financial Good News
Regina=Financial Fact/Truth
Cavello= Written Financial information
Fante=Immature Financial information
VI Denari= Harmony with Money/lucky Money
VII = Money Lost
VIII = Money regained
V1111 = Money shared, wages Bills
X = All is possible financially.

I am still working with it- before I use it on someone else
~Rosanne

 

[Moonbow]

Hi Rosanne

I intend working with these cards for a while and where there are gaps in the table I'll come back to the Marseilles meanings I use and see how that goes. The keywords do sound more fortune telling; 'thoughts of a man', 'a married lady', 'letter', so I think these will have a Lenormand feel once I get going. The Moors/Popes will be a bit of a challenge and need some consideration, I was hoping someone may come up with suggestions for these cards.

And Ross did you ever get around to posting the layouts?

I've had the Mitelli Dal Negro and Il Meneghello for a year now and done little more than look at them so I'm looking forward to studying these a little more.

 

[Lee]

Lee, I know some time has passed but how did you get on with this deck after all?

Hi Moonbow*, it has indeed been a few years, and my exploration of reading with this deck has fallen victim to my short tarot attention span. I still have the deck, though, and I still enjoy looking at it, and may very well return to attempting to reading with it in the future.

The meanings Ross lists are interesting from an academic viewpoint but that's not really the kind of reading that I like to do. Lenormand meanings, I find, have more depth and breadth and interest than these meanings. If I were going to read with the Bolognese, I would probably resort to the astrological-based approach that I mentioned on the first page of this thread. One advantage to that approach is it provides a basis for interpreting the four Moors (as four phases of the moon).

 

[Moonbow]

Good to hear from you Lee.

I've tried a few readings with the meanings from the manuscript, incorporating the later meanings if necessary, and I'm finding them very difficult to string together to become a reading. For example, Ace of Coins = Table or Table time, Queen of Coins = Truth or letter. And yet, if I cast my mind to Marseilles meanings with these cards, they seem to work better. I guess that's much like you with your Lenormand.

Before I continue along that line I need to do a little more research on the images and also study them with a view to using personal meanings, which, in a way is disappointing as I'd hoped to be able to get back to the original meanings. It seems the only likely way to read with the deck though.

The Ottrocento page posted my Marie gives some clue as to the importance of each card, so I'll bear that in mind. And Rosanne's meanings would work for me too.

 

[Lee]

You know, if I were so inclined, I think what I'd do is start from scratch. With six pip cards in each suit, I think I'd first determine suit meanings, and then decide on a graduated or developmental sequence of number meanings for Ace and then 6 through 10. So instead of a range of ten as in regular decks, it would be a range of six. I don't think it would work to simply apply your Marseille meanings to the same cards, because it's a different structure. Although you might take whatever number meanings you've worked out for Ace through 10, and apply them to the Bolognese pips but not necessarily to the same numbers, if you see what I mean.

Personally I love reading about antique meanings, but I don't really find them useful for reading. I think we in the 21st century see reading in a totally different light than they saw it in the past, and the antique meanings reflect that. Sure, one could take the antique meanings and try to adapt them to more modern significances, but it seems like a lot of work to go to -- personally I'd rather just start from scratch.

 

[Moonbow]

I do see what you mean Lee. There is a sense of something missing in the deck when it comes to reading the pips the Marseilles way and so I realised that starting a fresh with new meanings, personal ones, for the number cards at leas, would be the way to go.

In some of the pips its easy to see other numbers in the cards as well. For example the 9 of Batons clearly shows a four and a five, two of the missing pips. Two and three can be seen in the 6 of Batons. Not sure where this is leading me but perhaps I just need to play with the deck for a bit and work out what I see in each card. If possible I would like the meanings to have some definition but with flexibility too.

 

[Moonbow]

I'm reposting some of what I wrote in the last 6 days due to the server crash (thanks to my blog)

Working with number correlations isn’t going to work, a numerology connection when numbers 2-5 are missing feels like I am being biased with interpretations, and so I have been reading up on shape symbolism as many of the pips form basic shapes or patterns. Many of them also have small details and pictures within the card, for example the coins have birds, faces or small scenes. The swords show things like acorns, helmets, shields, ribbons, some are scimitars and others are straight. There are snakes, birds and grapes in the batons. If anything the cups will be tricky because they seem pretty uniform and lack any small image alongside the cup.

Through practice readings and writing lots of notes this seems to be working and so far this method is allowing me some flexibility in the cards meanings.

Il Menaghello in black and white and Dal Negro coloured:

 

[Moonbow]

The exact words I wrote regarding the four papal cards are lost so I attempt to post the gist of what I wrote.

I decided to read two of the Papal cards as Emperor and Empress, and the other two as Pope and Papesse, as Ross suggested. As can be seen, two hold orbs or worlds (Empress and Emperor) and the other two are in triple crowns, one sits with a documents on his lap: