Tarot Association of the British Isles - courses

[jmd]

If the endorsement was knowledge based, ie, about the structure of the deck, or its historical development, or whether a person in knowledgeable in its variety, then the analogy would be acceptable.

Where the problem lies, and the analogy fails, in that the endorsement is about reading tarot.

This is an entirely different proposition, and suggests that readers can be such that endorsement or certification is even possible. It is only 'possible' in the sense that someone is placed in a position of superiority to another who can accept or reject a suggested reading, without any indication that a reading yet to come will be adequate.

Also, in terms of a reading, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with using aids such as notes, books, or additional materials - whether ritualistic or not... as long as it is pertinent to the situation at hand.

Analogies to other organisations, professions, or exclusive societies is in any case quite different, in that the certificate makes a public pronouncement that readers are certifiable.

 

[Major Tom]

Hi ribbitcat. Where have you been hiding?

Oh yes, a hoary old chestnut ;-)

You would no doubt wish the topic disappear, but I see it as vitally important to the future of Tarot and tarot readers.

No, it is not a training scheme.

I'm going to be a bit cheeky and quote you from this thread.

As regards submissions to become an Endorsed reader for TABI ; some have been asked to re-submit , for various reasons , including truly bad spelling and grammar (the free reading service is via email , which makes this important) and the usual things that follow from not having read the instructions properly

It's at the very least teaching folks to spell and follow instructions and in that sense is a training scheme. Haven't there been people refused endorsement (in effect failed the course)?

I think that standardization ect is inevitable ...if you don't get involved now at the formative stages , then you won't be able to complain when at some point in the future you're presented with a fait accompli

This is a positively chilling view. The way the endorsement scheme is run does hasten the day a government body will seek to regulate. That will be a very sad day indeed. Is this an official TABI view?

I think readers who are endorsed/accredited/whatever *are* better readers . My reason for this is that I've come across too many naff readers ...but none of them were TABI Endorsed or ATA people .

Stuff and nonsense. How in the world can any scheme insure superiority? It is this implication made by TABI and some of its members that is dishonest and unethical.

I define a professional organisation as an organisation that seeks to regulate or regulates a particular field of endeavour. Does not TABI seek to regulate? 'Setting standards' is regulating.

At least TABI never went the route of the other UK tarot organisation.

TABI does so much good for promoting tarot, if only it would cease seeking to regulate while claiming superiority and undoing so much of the good.

The root from my perspective is the desire to eliminate charlatons and cheats from the field. I would submit that can never be done. Through the various certification/endorsement schemes more harm is done to the tarot world at large than is ever done by people who mean harm. And the really sad bit is those involved can't see it.

 

[Piper]

I'm just speaking from my personal experience, so take it with a grain of salt if you wish. When I was a free reader for ATA, I received a mentor who guided me through a mentorship. I had to run approximately 25 past him before I could be set on my own.

Was he reading the readings themselves? I think perhaps for the first he did, to see if I had a grasp on the cards, or if I was just going to spout LWB meanings. I remember the card for that particular reading was Strength from the Thoth.

His report on that reading was "Well, we don't have to concentrate on your reading style, now let's do this..." and we went onto how to rephrase a question, writing my personal ethics, and how to create the letter that would hold the question and reading. We also went into how I couldn't answer health, wealth, or legal questions because I wasn't a qualified professional in those areas. After I was let out on my own to do my own readings, I was essentially "endorsed" by ATA.

When my 2 months are up for TABI and I get a mentor, I'm expecting it to be similar if not the same. Am I going to be taught the meanings of each of the cards? Or how to read? Goddess, I hope not, that would be terribly dull and boring.

 

[Macavity]

As someone who has had Tarot on the "back burner" for some time now, I always found my dealings with TABI straightforward and honest. Having been through their training and endorsement programs, I found both, challenging and interesting. As a trainer myself, for a while, I felt the courses were run more on peer group principals. Who was I, to suggest that someone who had been "reading for 30 years" was wrong! As an "spiritual agnostic" my endorsement was painless. My mentor, a professional Reiki practitioner (something in which I have circumspection), were never in conflict. Simply, we concentrated on the TAROT. Aside: We did discuss personal belief systems, in a mature way. Actually we became (albeit temporary) internet friends, but with a genuinely shared interest...

Let's face it GROUPS of human beings who despise endorsement and claim absence of heirarchies usually replace these in other ways. "I've been doing this a LONG time", is a favourite! In Tarot, being "Spiritual", Wiccan, Druid, a member of an esoteric group, even "a scientist", adds much credibility. Similarly, "qualifications" (military rank, even?) may be used to suggest a host of positive attributes - good character, honesty etc. But the whole of the world's business, religion runs on vague nepotism, partrimony, backhanders, cartels etc. To me, believing TAROT is otherwise is... a tad optimistic?

Qualifications are ALWAYS subject to misuse. Endorsees "disappear", perhaps to begin lucrative careers as "professional Tarot readers"? Not my bag, but, if they have the gall and endurance, Kudos to them? I believe TABI endorsees view their "qualifications" with some equanimity. It is testament to personal effort. But I still object to those who might denigrate the HARD effort of others! I feel also that, whetever their other abilities, *most* Tarot readers would be "better" for a course. There's no real harm learning anything that might contribute to a a better understanding of Tarot. Nevertheless, TABI's courses and the endorsement procedure is not for the casual. Typing tens of thousand words is not for the faint hearted! (One might get away with less, but such was my own enthusiasm!). But I sense EVERYONE learns something once the "contempt prior ro investigation" is out of the way...

Finally, as someone on Tarot's periphery, one of the most off-putting experiences is the internecine and INTER (Tarot) group disputes and rivalries - Sometimes, dare I say, of almost "religious" intensity? I wonder why it is TABI is often "proscribed" on Aclectic in the first instance. In fairness other Tarot groups rapidly follow. <G> But Hey, *opinions* differ. Is that really so intolerable? Convince me otherwise, and I may yet rejoin ANY(!) Tarot group which I had prevously left (there are now some few). I aknowledge I may not be overly welcome... But Hey, a quick hello to people, with whome I once had the odd (hopefully good natured?) sparring match...

 

[ribbitcat]

Hi Major Tom

Hi ribbitcat. Where have you been hiding?

Have just recently been badly scalded elsewhere - and you know how that affects cats ;-)

You would no doubt wish the topic disappear, but I see it as vitally important to the future of Tarot and tarot readers.

Not at all Just that it seems to be mainly the same old faces engaging in the same discussion, and probably never the twain shall meet LOL

I'm going to be a bit cheeky and quote you from this thread.



It's at the very least teaching folks to spell and follow instructions and in that sense is a training scheme.

LOL Very good However, you implied, if not stated, that it was a *tarot* training scheme, which it is not. Helping someone with the basics of English when readings are done via email is not really training or teaching either, IMO.

Haven't there been people refused endorsement (in effect failed the course)?

Yes, only a couple or three, to my (OOD) knowledge. Two of which were for plagiarism ie. lifting card interpretations directly from a published tarot book.

This is a positively chilling view. The way the endorsement scheme is run does hasten the day a government body will seek to regulate. That will be a very sad day indeed. Is this an official TABI view?

I don't say that I think it will happen; I say that it might well be a possibility for the future. I didn't even say if I agreed with it.

Stuff and nonsense. How in the world can any scheme insure superiority? It is this implication made by TABI and some of its members that is dishonest and unethical.

For some reason, the bits you quoted from me aren't showing in this as I try to respond ...
In the original *full* post from which you quoted, I am 99% sure that I say that it is my own *personal* opinion ... at the time, I was pouring some petrol onto the fire As you know, I can enjoy a bit of arson LOL

I define a professional organisation as an organisation that seeks to regulate or regulates a particular field of endeavour. Does not TABI seek to regulate? 'Setting standards' is regulating.

Nope, I disagree with you, both on the definition and on whether TABi regulates

At least TABI never went the route of the other UK tarot organisation.

Will check that out, thanks.

TABI does so much good for promoting tarot, if only it would cease seeking to regulate while claiming superiority and undoing so much of the good.

It does not regulate or claim superiority.

The root from my perspective is the desire to eliminate charlatons and cheats from the field. I would submit that can never be done.

Does that mean then that the attempt should not be made ?

Through the various certification/endorsement schemes more harm is done to the tarot world at large than is ever done by people who mean harm. And the really sad bit is those involved can't see it.

LOL of course, I disagree with you again.

ribbit

 

[ribbitcat]

Other UK Tarot Organization

Hi again Major Tom -

Just checked out the link you gave - very few details on that website : who *are* all the "famous and well-known tarot readers ? There is only one reader who has details of herself there. It seems based a little on the ATA structure (Apprentice, Master etc), and IMO, the requirements seem a little on the sketchy side.

ribbit

 

[ribbitcat]

Hi Macavity, you old reprobate

I wonder why it is TABI is often "proscribed" on Aclectic in the first instance. In fairness other Tarot groups rapidly follow.

TABI is proscribed on Aeclectic ?? I didn't know that. I take it to mean that proscribed means TABI cannot be mentioned - is that right ? Can someone tell me, and also, if it is, why ?

But Hey, a quick hello to people, with whome I once had the odd (hopefully good natured?) sparring match...

I remember with pleasure <G>

ribbit

 

[ribbitcat]

Hi Mon Ami

Part of the problem, of course, is that TABI, by its very name, seems to suggest that it represents Tarot professionals in the British Isles.

No, I don't see that. Nowhere does it say that it is an organization for (or representing) tarot professionals, in the UK or elsewhere. - as I said to Major Tom, it is an Association for anyone interested in tarot, regardless of their level of ability or experience.

Of course most readers in the UK are not members of TABI, but irrespective it should not give the impression that readings can be endorsed,

Why shouldn't it ? Why can't readings be endorsed ?

nor that there can be a common code of acceptable practice,

It doesn't say that there is a common code of acceptable practice. TABI itself has one, and I don't see why there can't be a common code of acceptable practice generally. For example, who would not agree that to tell a querent that they're going to die within the next three months (say) is unacceptable ?

nor that its readers or members are somehow better.

I don't think that it does. Why not email the Chairman and see if they would consider putting on their website the express type of statement that you wish to see ? If you don't ask, you don't get ;-)

In fact, I would suggest, as an Tarot Association, it has as part of its responsibility accurate representation of Tarot in the British Isles... unless one agrees with the manner in which various company directors claim that their duty is to their stakeholders' (ie, members or shareholders) financial return, rather than, for example (of a gas company), efficient and clean delivery of gas to its clients, sensitive to its environmental and social impact for the broader community.

I'm not understanding what you mean here.

ribbit

 

[Macavity]

TABI is proscribed on Aeclectic ?? I didn't know that. I take it to mean that proscribed means TABI cannot be mentioned - is that right ? Can someone tell me, and also, if it is, why?

Maybe I have an unnatural liking for the word proscribed? Perhaps it's because of similarity to the word prescribed! But I do feel that TABI has become uniquely (and unfairly?) associated with the idea of "endorsement" HERE. I do sense intuitively (odd for me, I know! LOL) that this is not the ESSENCE of TABI - Nor perhaps many similarly "endorsing" Tarot organisations? To me, they are just harmeless, fairly disparate (desparate? <G>) groups of individuals who want to SHARE their mutual enjoyment and commonality. And maybe, in the process, contribute a little (subjective!) excellence to the subject. I do aknowledge the seriousness of the issue, but I also think that the FUN element of TAROT can be rather displaced in these conflicts...

 

[Sulis]

TABI is proscribed on Aeclectic ?? I didn't know that. I take it to mean that proscribed means TABI cannot be mentioned - is that right ? Can someone tell me, and also, if it is, why?

Hi Ribbitcat

I've never heard of anything like this, there certainly isn't anything in the ATF rules that says that TABI cannot be mentioned.