Tarot, the mind, and when the mind's messed up.

[jmd]

I have already made my main point earlier in the thread, but thought I would like to add another, somewhat peripheral to the main thread, but mentioned a number of times in various posts.

A number of people argue that marijuana is not as dangerous as alcohol. I fundamentally disagree. Even in small doses, it can in a significant number of people precipitate a psychotic episode. Also, the half-life of residual chemicals is quite long. Ie, it raintains stored in the brain for a prolonged period of time.

Alcohol, taken over prolonged periods, or in large quantities, may of course also lead to disastrous consequences, and the number of victims to the violence it may unleash on the consumers towards even their 'loved ones' is a major cause for concern in our society. Here, however, we are talking of consumption which far exceeds what may be considered reasonable.

THC, fortunately, is not consumed in equivalent proportion by an equivalent number of people. The detriment to individuals would otherwise be clear, and more severe, I suggest, than equivalent alcohol consumption.

But to return to the thread.

The person may speak words blessed with divinatory significance when intoxicated with various substances. But then it is the words spoken which are blessed, not the speaker.

 

[Dark_angel]

I realise that this doesn't count as good evidence to support any point of view, but I thought I'd tell you a bit about the activities of some of the people I used to consider my friends.

Firstly, we lived in a "drug-friendly" environment, so there was no stated "this is bad", just "this is what these drugs are, this is what they do, they're illegal, but if you want to experiment, go ahead as long as you are informed". We used to smoke the occasional joint before going out, as a social occasion.

*Before I go on, despite what I'm about to tell you, I do not believe the stories that cannabis is always a gateway drug, although I do recognise that it has side-effects."

I stopped at that level (I was aware of the side-effects and made a choice), and watched as my friends changed completely.

The least affected spent his year at uni smoking in his room and watching videos, and dropped out. However, he's now away from the uni environment, has sorted himself out a bit (no rehab) and is going to Australia soon to work abroad before maybe coming back to do a new degree.

The ones who stayed have changed completely from the people I knew, to the point where most are unable to be friends to me, even though I'm still a friend to them (by this I mean, helping people out when they're in trouble, meeting them for lunch or coffee, listening and laughing with them). I gave you a couple of the least extreme stories in an earlier post. Rest assured they get far worse.

I think that this reflects on society's attitudes towards young people, not just about drugs. The police are portrayed as evil scum trying to stop people having fun, so any advice they give is laughed off (I know people who went to police lectures on drugs while they were high, sat in the front row and heckled them). Parents and other adults are shown as boring, out of touch and restrictive, when this is not the case, and this leaves young people with a very twisted view of society. Add to this illegal chemicals with no "How to take" instructions, which can also be used as a way of making money, and you end up with a very popular and misused activity.

By now you may be thinking "Where does she live?!" Well, I live in an affluent area of a well-respected university city. If this is what goes on as a common occurrence HERE, I can only imagine what it's like in deprived areas of the country.

Sorry, I keep feeling the need to rant about this subject. Feel free to delete it if you like.

Luv, Fi. xxx

 

[Cassiopeia]

This is a really intresting thread, and something that I feel quite strongly about for myself.

I work as a counsellor, and I tend to think that when I am counselling I am bringing in psyhcic awareness...I feel that empathy has strong conections with intuition and psychic senses. I would never go into a counselling situation having drunk alcohol or taken any kind of drug..clearly, that would be very unethical and I would be slung out of the job very quickly if I did. I am acctually careful not to drink coffee before I go into sessions for the same reasons that I have a responsibility to facilitate a safe enviroment and I cannot do that if I my mind is chemically altered.

Tarot reading is different, but the way I tend to read brings in using empathy and intuition and my one to one readings, even online, can stir a lot of emotion within the people I am reading. I think that the same responsibility applies to tarot reading. What I am doing is offering some form of guidance to people who may well be in a very vulnerable position....so I apply the ethics of counselling to my tarot. I have a responisibilty to my sitters.

I can understand the points about chemicals freeing you up to read more accurately, and I think these are good points that I would aggree with. However, I feel strongly that I need a to maintain a level of censorship within readings. If I become aware of a painful situation, I need to how I best phrase what I am aware of to cause the least distress. Sometimes, in group situations, it feels important to be really aware of not exposing that persons inner most secrets to a group of other people, phrasing my insights in such a way that the person I am reading for knows I understand thier situation and only that person. I need to remain sober to do that to the best of my ability.

If I know I am going to a party with friends were I may be asked to read, I dont drink until after I have read. Looking into someone else's life brings with it responsibilty. I tend to liken it to being invited into someones home....I might feel that its ok to look at the pictures on the walls, the way they have thier furnature...but it isnt ok to go rifling through thier drawers and cupboards. Hope that makes sense, lol. Anyway, thats my two penneth.

 

[Khatruman]

Looking into someone else's life brings with it responsibilty. I tend to liken it to being invited into someones home....I might feel that its ok to look at the pictures on the walls, the way they have their furniture...but it isnt ok to go rifling through thier drawers and cupboards. Hope that makes sense, lol. Anyway, thats my two penneth.

I think you made a lot of good sense. Indeed, if you are going to take tarot reading seriously, you must approach it as anyone who performs a social service: you are handling a person's life, and, as you aptly pointed out, if they come to you for a reading, they are most likely quite vulnerable. One book I read somewhere pointed out what should be common sense to a reader: people come to you for a reading when they have a problem, not when they are fine and stable. Keeping that in mind helps you as a reader become more empathetic.

A reader with lowered inhibitions may be more open to the readings instinctual messages, but also may be less in tune with the ramifications of simply blurting out those messages. A great part of reading involves not simply seeing the connections, but how one treats those revelations. A good reader is a great counselor also.

Thank you, Cass. I think your response itself exemplifies the care with which all should handle such conversations.

 

[punchinella]

Yes, Casseopeia, you make a very, very good point. When querants come to us for readings, generally this is because they have problems & are feeling vulnerable . . . How can we possibly respond to this with the care which basic ethics would seem to demand, if our judgment has been dulled--our consciousness/conscience in any way altered? Issues of the effectiveness (or, not) of using substance as a short-cut to open the door aside . . . your argument, in & of itself, in my mind precludes all further questions about whether or not use is appropriate. Sort of sad that nobody (myself included) managed to think of/bring it up earlier . . .

P.

 

[DeLani]

OK, so I know I'm probably going to be put up there with Osama bin Laden for saying this, but here goes.
I can see that there seems to be a general consensus among everybody that doing any mind-altering substance makes you dull, stupid, etc., etc. I do agree that *some* substances, like alcohol or meth, do make you more dumb.
But I do not believe that all mind-altering substances - entheogens - do that. I believe that the altering of one's consciousness actually can (if done with intention) make you more aware of the big picture, to take you out of the confines of your own limited self. And I don't believe that only Indians or Lappland Shamans can do this. Every human has this capacity to learn from an altered state of consciousness, and that is why the Goddess put these plants and fungi here.
Now, to the point of doing readings while under the influence: I don't think it's a good idea to do readings drunk, or under the influence of dominator drugs, since the ego is inflated and inhibition might be down, so you aren't going to be in the right state of mind to be sensitive to the querent's needs. But then, context is the key. I did a couple Samhain readings last night for close friends, and had more than a little wine in me, as they did, and the readings were wonderful.
It is possible to do wonderful readings, with amazing insight, while utilizing the tools of entheogens to alter the consciousness to see outside the self. Very powerful, real empathic bonds between querent and reader, or between the reader's conscious and unconscious, can be achieved the help of Goddess-blessed sacramental entheogens (please note - I don't speak for all Pagans/Wiccans here - this is strictly my opinion). Context again: I wouldn't do this at a public place, reading for complete strangers. The ego provides a very necessary protection in cases like that.
I know I am howling to the wind here. But I do respect those who feel *any* altered state is the wrong state to be in. To each their own. I of course do over 99% of my readings stone cold sober. I think that the key here is to recongnize that each person's choice should be honored, even if we don't agree with it.
Happy Samhain,
D.

 

[Balsamo]

When I was reading, I was often hired as party entertainment - and the people I was reading for were usually well lubricated. As I've said elsewhere, at the time I was practicing Cold Reading (although I didn't know that was what it was called).

It helped the readings along, that the client was a bit tipsy while I was soberer.

 

[vision777]

when i was 18 and i first picked up my hanson- roberts deck. i remember leaving them under my pillow for at least a month before opening it. then one night after that month had pass i just remember i had the tarot cards under my pillow. i was high on weed and i remember laying out all the cards by their suit with my eden gray book mastering the tarot i think that was the name next to me . i remember having the feeling that i had seen these cards before. which i know i didnt but for some strange reason i felt these cards were meant for me. it was weird i remember picking up the three of cups and saying yeah look at these girl gossiping. i was so high it felt like i was in a dream. that was my first tarot card i deciefer with out looking at the book. and to me its very colorful.i don't smoke weed anymore because i figure its a waste of money. and plus it makes me feel extra tired in the morinings.but when you mix drugs and drinks you will get a reading you would not normally get when your sober. i guess that makes the cards high too or drunk .

 

[vision777]

i think the seven of cups from the sacred rose deck descirbes the way using drugs and alcohol will effect a person

 

[NightWing]

Self-delusion & Tarot

This was a very interesting thread, well worth the reading.

My own view when it comes to tarot and the use of drugs and/or alcohol is perhaps pretty basic.

When I used to drink much more heavily than now, and get up to sing at a party, I could sing like the greatest, and dance like a nightclub star...or so I thought. It was nothing but delusion. I actually sing like a frog and dance about as well as an elephant.

In America, all the enormous use of drugs, legal and otherwise, as well as alcohol, should have made it a spiritual paradise. It is anything but. More delusion.

While I have no hang-ups about the recreational use of mind-altering substances, I don't believe for a moment that it is anything remotely "spiritual" that takes place. When it comes to divining for people who are troubled and facing grave problems, the reader has a responsibility not to be engaging in self-delusion wrought by ingesting external chemicals.

We owe the querent sobriety, clear-headedness, honesty, and our full attention. Save the booze or drugs for socializing later.