Scion
Kwaw, I feel like a dingdong. I found/remembered a BIG argument in support of your Algol/Sun theory. I can't believe I hadn't thought of it before.
The Gorgon is a solar symbol. Full stop. And I knew this, but hadn't been thinking of Algol as the Gorgon's Head, because Demon/Devil was so enticing. Duh! Even the Greeks said it was. I fact, a lot of comparative religion types think that Medusa was originally an expression of Athena's destructive solar aspect and that the later Aegis placement was a way of allowing her to retain destructive power without compromising her balanced sanitized post-cthonic role as an Olympian. That said, I don't know if I'm totaly sold on Algol/Sun, but this makes a hefty argument in its favor. As you say, it's foolish to exclude any option. Staying outside the box and all that.
Trouble is... and this is where I think the need for a speculative pattern is haunting me. We're talking about the 15 Behenians, but we still have those 7 Wanderers. I've been playing with this in a few different versions (which I'll post as PDF charts shortly): the dopey literalist model and the more obscure systematic, "mystery school" model and something else. And as I've been futzing, I starting to think it comes down to where the 7 planets fall. In a way, identifying the planets in the Trumps speculatively should be easier and a little less unfamiliar because we've all seen so many versions of same. With 7 trumps assigned (roughly) to planets, then the 15 remaining could be mapped variously against our Behenii...
Anyways, the thing with Algol/Sun in the literalist model is: Why isn't the Sun the Sun? As Pendu says, doesn't that make good clean sense?
Still the Gorgon's head is universally acknowledged as a solar symbol. And If we use Rosanne's Beehive model, it does create one nice correspondence. On the other hand, the Marseille order isn't standard until LONG after the iconography has been established, so I take Pendu's suggestion seriously about not adhering strictly to TdM order.
On another related note... While digging around for more Gorgon/Sun material, I was looking at the Denderah Zodiac, which dates from Ptolemaic times circa 100BCE, and I think y'all may kill me, but I've spotted several Behenian Stars there AS FIGURES, with the depictions vaguely Mesopotamian in character. And the planets are depicted in their exaltations (which I've just learned is known as hypsomata) Now, not to get all Elvis/Atlantis/Chariots-of-the-Gods about it, but since the source of the Decans is Egyptian, and the fixed stars are observed and catalogued in a Egyptian Zodiac relief in Babylonian style, and Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos is the cornerstone of Western Astrology, and depictions of astrological symbols are strangely consistent across cultures and eras (Schiffanoia anyone?) ...
I think I'm going to try a speculative Behenian-to-Trump assignment that favors (gulp) the late Egyptian sculptural Zodiacs. NOT because I think Tarot came from Egypt, but because there are so many tantalizing archaelogical threads about the iconography of these stars, and Egypt does have so much data passing through it until the Romans ride in and muck it up. I just hope I can find enough. Why oh why didn't I start doing this research back when I was at Columbia and grants fell from the trees like pears? Frankly (though I feel like I should be wearing a foil pyramid hat to say it) wouldn't it be fascinating if we could come up with an unprovable but tantalizing suggestion linking Egyptian star worship and the iconography of the trumps?!?!
Eek. Big foil hat.
So I need a little time to hash it out, but I'm shooting for 3 completely different attribution models rendered as PDF charts to shred and discuss and revise. I'm learning a ton by going through this with y'all... So many thanks for getting me so jazzed.
INcidentally, Kwaw, you're exactly right about Alkaid: NOT Major, Minor. Duh. That's what I get for typing fast with no sleep. From what I can tell Alkaid is Eta Ursae Majoris at 26 Virgo 56, but I'll keep looking. I'm slightly bummed that it doesn't appear on that astrolabe, but then again, it is only one beautiful astrolabe.
More soon,
Scion
The Gorgon is a solar symbol. Full stop. And I knew this, but hadn't been thinking of Algol as the Gorgon's Head, because Demon/Devil was so enticing. Duh! Even the Greeks said it was. I fact, a lot of comparative religion types think that Medusa was originally an expression of Athena's destructive solar aspect and that the later Aegis placement was a way of allowing her to retain destructive power without compromising her balanced sanitized post-cthonic role as an Olympian. That said, I don't know if I'm totaly sold on Algol/Sun, but this makes a hefty argument in its favor. As you say, it's foolish to exclude any option. Staying outside the box and all that.
Trouble is... and this is where I think the need for a speculative pattern is haunting me. We're talking about the 15 Behenians, but we still have those 7 Wanderers. I've been playing with this in a few different versions (which I'll post as PDF charts shortly): the dopey literalist model and the more obscure systematic, "mystery school" model and something else. And as I've been futzing, I starting to think it comes down to where the 7 planets fall. In a way, identifying the planets in the Trumps speculatively should be easier and a little less unfamiliar because we've all seen so many versions of same. With 7 trumps assigned (roughly) to planets, then the 15 remaining could be mapped variously against our Behenii...
Anyways, the thing with Algol/Sun in the literalist model is: Why isn't the Sun the Sun? As Pendu says, doesn't that make good clean sense?
Still the Gorgon's head is universally acknowledged as a solar symbol. And If we use Rosanne's Beehive model, it does create one nice correspondence. On the other hand, the Marseille order isn't standard until LONG after the iconography has been established, so I take Pendu's suggestion seriously about not adhering strictly to TdM order.
On another related note... While digging around for more Gorgon/Sun material, I was looking at the Denderah Zodiac, which dates from Ptolemaic times circa 100BCE, and I think y'all may kill me, but I've spotted several Behenian Stars there AS FIGURES, with the depictions vaguely Mesopotamian in character. And the planets are depicted in their exaltations (which I've just learned is known as hypsomata) Now, not to get all Elvis/Atlantis/Chariots-of-the-Gods about it, but since the source of the Decans is Egyptian, and the fixed stars are observed and catalogued in a Egyptian Zodiac relief in Babylonian style, and Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos is the cornerstone of Western Astrology, and depictions of astrological symbols are strangely consistent across cultures and eras (Schiffanoia anyone?) ...
I think I'm going to try a speculative Behenian-to-Trump assignment that favors (gulp) the late Egyptian sculptural Zodiacs. NOT because I think Tarot came from Egypt, but because there are so many tantalizing archaelogical threads about the iconography of these stars, and Egypt does have so much data passing through it until the Romans ride in and muck it up. I just hope I can find enough. Why oh why didn't I start doing this research back when I was at Columbia and grants fell from the trees like pears? Frankly (though I feel like I should be wearing a foil pyramid hat to say it) wouldn't it be fascinating if we could come up with an unprovable but tantalizing suggestion linking Egyptian star worship and the iconography of the trumps?!?!
Eek. Big foil hat.
So I need a little time to hash it out, but I'm shooting for 3 completely different attribution models rendered as PDF charts to shred and discuss and revise. I'm learning a ton by going through this with y'all... So many thanks for getting me so jazzed.
INcidentally, Kwaw, you're exactly right about Alkaid: NOT Major, Minor. Duh. That's what I get for typing fast with no sleep. From what I can tell Alkaid is Eta Ursae Majoris at 26 Virgo 56, but I'll keep looking. I'm slightly bummed that it doesn't appear on that astrolabe, but then again, it is only one beautiful astrolabe.
More soon,
Scion