Herzog
Obviously a very complex card, but is the core meaning simply, "follow your bliss"....
Im thinking of the advise from the great Joseph Campbell
Im thinking of the advise from the great Joseph Campbell
The Lovers as calling
Thirteen
Yes, but Joseph stopped short. The Lovers card says: "Follow your bliss (and you will find fulfillment)...and accept the consequences of doing that."HerzogIsGod said:
A married man who falls for another woman should not say to his wife and kids, "Sorry, I'm following my bliss. See ya!" If he must leave wife and kids to be fulfilled and all he can be in life, then he must, but he should accept the consequences and responsibilities that come with that decision. This is why it is a "choice." Because you do have a choice not to follow your bliss even if the card recommends it. Sad as it is, and though the card doesn't recommend it, some people do feel that duty or honoring promises or loyalty to family or country, etc., is more important than bliss.
Herzog
Back in my Joseph Campbell days I was fond of telling people to "follow their bliss". One day a friend of mine asked me, "What if my bliss was pyromania?"
Well that pretty much stopped me cold. So yes, there must be a caveat when urging a person to follow their bliss.
Well that pretty much stopped me cold. So yes, there must be a caveat when urging a person to follow their bliss.
Grizabella
Every choice carries both good and bad consequences. We just have to choose which we're willing to live with or which we feel is best.
For instance, every love partner has both good and bad qualities. To have a successful relationship, we just have to accept the good with the bad and that means choosing which "bad" characteristics we can best live with. No partner is going to be free of all faults and we can't enter into a relationship with the idea that once there's a commitment we can change them or that once there's a commitment all will be rosy and they won't exhibit the bad characteristics anymore.
My bliss might lie with the handsome hunk down the street but if I follow my bliss, I might follow it right into the lair of a serious killer, unbeknownst to me. (Hey, it happens. Serial killers do get married, have kids and seem normal. It's only a wonder it never happened to me since blundering along after my bliss was my trademark for years.
)
For instance, every love partner has both good and bad qualities. To have a successful relationship, we just have to accept the good with the bad and that means choosing which "bad" characteristics we can best live with. No partner is going to be free of all faults and we can't enter into a relationship with the idea that once there's a commitment we can change them or that once there's a commitment all will be rosy and they won't exhibit the bad characteristics anymore.
My bliss might lie with the handsome hunk down the street but if I follow my bliss, I might follow it right into the lair of a serious killer, unbeknownst to me. (Hey, it happens. Serial killers do get married, have kids and seem normal. It's only a wonder it never happened to me since blundering along after my bliss was my trademark for years.
)Thirteen
Hey, every guy needs a hobby. Better than bass fishingGrizabella said:
pasara
honestly, i don't see it as meaning follow your bliss. sometimes when you are in a Lovers situation you are following your bliss, but i don't see it as the meaning of the card.
The Lovers to me is about feeling complete through joining with another. It is not an inner process so much but an outer one. We do something, we are in relationship with another. It might not be another romantic partner exactly, but it (to me) involves joining with something outside of oneself, and through that being more whole.
follow your bliss could just as easily be the Fool or the 8 of Cups or the knight of wands, or any number of cards depending on what your bliss is.
The Lovers to me is about feeling complete through joining with another. It is not an inner process so much but an outer one. We do something, we are in relationship with another. It might not be another romantic partner exactly, but it (to me) involves joining with something outside of oneself, and through that being more whole.
follow your bliss could just as easily be the Fool or the 8 of Cups or the knight of wands, or any number of cards depending on what your bliss is.
Herzog
I guess i was of thinking of acknowledgment of that one thing the second you lay eyes on it, you instantly know you cannot live a full life without it. And by "eyes" I also mean heart. The idea of opposites coming together and how each can exist only in relation to one another.
I was thinking of an artist's vision, or the call to be a teacher or fireman and how ignoring the call --not choosing it-- may deny a person of a whole, complete life.
The Fool doesn't know what he/she wants and the Eight of Cups seems more about moving on, even if you're not sure where you're headed. Maybe the Knight of Wands...he's certainly driven
I was thinking of an artist's vision, or the call to be a teacher or fireman and how ignoring the call --not choosing it-- may deny a person of a whole, complete life.
The Fool doesn't know what he/she wants and the Eight of Cups seems more about moving on, even if you're not sure where you're headed. Maybe the Knight of Wands...he's certainly driven
Ronia
The bliss would be Wands. Depending on the nature and goal of the bliss it may be also the Queen and the King, the Eight or the Ace.
The Lovers, as a Major Arcana, is concerned with far higher emotions than that. It is about finding the perfect other half, the soul mate and not only on physical but on spiritual level as well. It speaks about a "couple who has been through trials together" (Robin Wood) and has overcome them. It is about raising above the everyday life, boredom, struggles, and acknowledging the power of Love as the ultimate medicine, the painkiller. Not the material love but the love which doesn't care if you're good looking or not, if you're waxing or not, if you wear Armani or have only one pair of shoes. The Lovers is speaking about love which gives us the feeling this will be eternity, on this world and wherever we go afterwards. Material appearance and concerns don't touch this love. This card urges and reminds us there is such love. Not eeveryone is lucky to meet it in this life or not everyone is ready to seek hard enough as it often requires to make tough choices and leave behind many other things to find it, but the Lovers insists it is out there.
The Lovers, as a Major Arcana, is concerned with far higher emotions than that. It is about finding the perfect other half, the soul mate and not only on physical but on spiritual level as well. It speaks about a "couple who has been through trials together" (Robin Wood) and has overcome them. It is about raising above the everyday life, boredom, struggles, and acknowledging the power of Love as the ultimate medicine, the painkiller. Not the material love but the love which doesn't care if you're good looking or not, if you're waxing or not, if you wear Armani or have only one pair of shoes. The Lovers is speaking about love which gives us the feeling this will be eternity, on this world and wherever we go afterwards. Material appearance and concerns don't touch this love. This card urges and reminds us there is such love. Not eeveryone is lucky to meet it in this life or not everyone is ready to seek hard enough as it often requires to make tough choices and leave behind many other things to find it, but the Lovers insists it is out there.
Grizabella
HerzogIsGod said:
The title of the thread was "Lovers as calling" and I think some of us veered off course with our answers.
As a calling, if you see the Lovers as the "soulmate" thing, you could be a marriage counselor, matchmaker, sex therapist, or something like that.
Or if you see it as choice-making, you could be one of those things called a "life coach". I think that's the code name for having an excuse to tell other people how to run their lives.
That might appeal to some people, you know? Or a psychologist or psychiatrist maybe.Thirteen
Valid point, but I see where Herzog is coming from. The Fool or Knight/Wands or 8/Cups says follow your bliss in search of that which will complete you.pasara said:
The Lover's take on "follow your bliss" is trust your instincts in making a choice and picking that which will complete you.
8/Cups, after all, tells you to follow your bliss, but doesn't promise that you'll find what you're after, ditto with Fool and Knight/Wands, all of them may find that the journey is what transforms them, not what they find at the end. But Lovers doesn't say "go on a journey." It says you've reached an end-point and found a treasure and have to decide whether to take it up or not. So "following your bliss" becomes a matter of *how* you decide what to do, not what you decide to do. If that makes sense.
