Thoth Study Group - Four of Wands

[TheoMo]

I used to be confused with the meaning of this card. "Completion" strikes me as something that should be suited to disks -- a project completed, successful and what not. Why would it be here with the wands?

I realized I was asking the wrong question. In the Thoth deck, wands deals with energy, especially its direction. "Completion" here means that whatever energy had been originally directed long ago (with the 2 of wands) and then cultivated with the three has now reached a point where it can go no further than originally intended. It is "complete". There is a sense of stasis with regard to energy expenditure.

I don't know if this makes any sense, lol. the next card, "strife," indicates that something has come in and upset the old order. More energy comes in somehow, and that leads to a destruction of the completion. Hence the strife.

 

[Lillie]

This thread got me curious.

So I had a look to see if I could see the face.

Yes! I could, it was there on my greenie, and on my old one in the gold box.

I sometimes find it informative to compare Crowleys names with the GD names.
For the 4 Wands the GD name is 'perfected work' which does tie in with the idea of completion.

And also with many of the things that have already been said in this thread.

 

[thinbuddha]

It seeems to me that there is some ignificance with the shape of the wheel. It's almost as if what is complete is the construction of the wheel, and only now are we ready to use the wheel- the completion refers only to the preparation for the true task at hand, and now you are ready to "roll".

Just a thought.

Help me out.... what is GD, and hopw does it relate to this deck?

 

[Aeon418]

It seeems to me that there is some ignificance with the shape of the wheel. It's almost as if what is complete is the construction of the wheel, and only now are we ready to use the wheel- the completion refers only to the preparation for the true task at hand, and now you are ready to "roll".

But in order to roll you need friction to supply the motive power, the 5 of Wands - Strife.

Help me out.... what is GD, and hopw does it relate to this deck?

The GD is the Golden Dawn. The keywords that they applied to their tarot deck are the basis for the ones found on the Thoth deck. Crowley changed a few of them because he felt that they didn't quite reflect the true meanings of the cards.

3 of Wands. GD : Established Strength. Thoth : Virtue.
4 of Wands. GD : Perfected Work. Thoth : Completion.
5 of Wands. GD : Great Strength. Thoth : Strength.
4 of Cups. GD : Blended Pleasure. Thoth : Luxury.
5 of Cups. GD : Loss in Pleasure. Thoth : Disappointment.
7 of Cups. GD : Illusionary Success. Thoth : Debauch.
8 of Cups. GD : Abandoned Success. Thoth : Indolence.
9 of Cups. GD : Material Happiness. Thoth : Happiness.
10 of Cups. GD : Perfected Success. Thoth : Satiety.
2 of Swords.GD : Peace Restored. Thoth : Peace.
4 of Swords.GD : Rest from Strife. Thoth : Truce.
6 of Swords.GD : Earned Success. Thoth : Science.
7 of Swords.GD : Unstable Effort. Thoth : Futility.
8 of Swords.GD : Shortened Force. Thoth : Interference.
9 of Swords.GD : Despair and Cruelty. Thoth : Cruelty.
2 of Disks. GD : Harmonious Change. Thoth : Change.
3 of Disks. GD : Material Works. Thoth : Works.
4 of Disks. GD : Earthly Power. Thoth : Power.
5 of Disks. GD : Material Trouble. Thoth : Worry.
6 of Disks. GD : Material Success. Thoth : Success.
7 of Disks. GD : Success Unfulfilled. Thoth : Failure.
9 of Disks. GD : Material Gain. Thoth : Gain.

 

[Lillie]

I always felt that Crowley changed them because he wanted single words. And the GD had double word discriptions for many, as can be seen from the list above.

But that's just my personal opinion.

In the Golden Dawn every card was given a title.
Many of these are very beautiful, and very discriptive.
They are worth finding and reading for their beauty alone.

A few examples.
XIII Death - The Child of the Great Transformers, Lord of the Gates of Death.
XV The Devil - Lord of the Gates of Matter, Child of the Forces of Time.

Princess of Wands - The Princess of the Shining Flame, The Rose of the Palace of Fire.

All the aces are - The Root of the Powers of... (relevant element)

All the minor cards are the 'Lord of' the keyword.
Sp the 3 of Swords is - The Lord of Sorrow.

Anyhow, I love these names.

They can be found in many places, including Wang's The Golden Dawn Tarot.

 

[Teheuti]

The Four of Wands is Venus in Aries. Venus rules Libra (Fall Equinox) and Aries is the Spring Equinox. Aries is ruled by Mars - so the astrological attribution suggests the balance of Mars and Venus (red and green), Male and Female as well as the balance of day and night that the equinoxes represent. (This, despite Venus being in its detriment). The GD says "Venus in the fiery Aries has her full fruition."

It's completion because the Equinoxes are not only the beginning of a season but the end of the preceding one - the completion of winter and the completion of summer (Sept. 21 is the middle of the 3 harvest celebrations). They are turning points (thus, the similarity to a wheel).

Personally, I see the Four of Wands as representing some kind of "rite of passage" implying that something is ending (completion) while at the same time a new stage (initiation) is beginning (Aries). This is the exact balance point between the old and the new.

In terms of all the 4's relating in some way to completion - this is a Pythagorean idea based on the Tetracts consisting of ten dots placed in a triangle representing 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10 and so, metaphysically, 4=10. Also, the four elements are the basis of all material existence.

Mary

 

[wizzle]

Venus = stuff = completion = rising sign

Mary's thoughts on Venus in Aires led me to think about the concept of the earthy planet of Venus coupled with the cadent, rushing energy of Mars/Aries. This works out rather nicely as "completion" becuase Venus is one of the two planets associated with Earth, which is really physical stuff, or manifestation if you want to me more elegant. So Venus manifests on the Earth plane out of the energy supplied by the wands. And once something is manifested, solidified, earthed, that energy's work is complete. At least until it is taken apart in Scorpio to begin another round.

This would also be a good card for the concept of the rising sign. We come into being (or manifest) at the rising sign, natural house of Aires, and go on to the new beginning Mary postulated. If entering life isn't an initiation, I don't know what is.

 

[mooiedragon]

I realized I was asking the wrong question. In the Thoth deck, wands deals with energy, especially its direction. "Completion" here means that whatever energy had been originally directed long ago (with the 2 of wands) and then cultivated with the three has now reached a point where it can go no further than originally intended. It is "complete". There is a sense of stasis with regard to energy expenditure.

I don't know if this makes any sense, lol. the next card, "strife," indicates that something has come in and upset the old order. More energy comes in somehow, and that leads to a destruction of the completion. Hence the strife.

This definitely makes sense for me, as I plod through a reading. I see the sense of stagnant energy and I feel almost as if there is a "stalemate" regarding the two energies. They have agreed to agree (or to disagree).... and I see the 4 of Wands as these energies kind of saying "now what?" to each other. Until they are broken up or challenged by the Strife in the 5 of Wands.

 

[SilentBreeze]

Could this card also mean that someone is a control freak and is trying to make everything perfect.

I also wonder about the dark colors which make it seem like a negative card, although the idea seems kind of positive.

I could also see the stagnation in the card.

Another thing is that the four wands in the wheel make it seem like there is a lot more wands then there are. Maybe that might mean something.

 

[mooiedragon]

Could this card also mean that someone is a control freak and is trying to make everything perfect.

I think it's possible that's how it could manifest, depending on the surrounding cards. But I see it more as a combined effort somehow... and would have to indicate on some level that there is another aspect to the situation that is allowing them to have the control.

I also wonder about the dark colors which make it seem like a negative card, although the idea seems kind of positive.

Me too, even though sometimes to me I really like the colours and they just seem peaceful.

I could also see the stagnation in the card.

Another thing is that the four wands in the wheel make it seem like there is a lot more wands then there are. Maybe that might mean something.

You're right! I never really thought of that before - I'm sure it has some meaning! In fact, i think there almost has to be eight wands there - fusing to become four. Gonna re-read this post about that... hmmmm