thoughts on 4 pentacles/4 swords

[JennyM]

Could the 4 of pentacles represent someone who's tight-lipped, someone who can keep a secret..or would that be the 4 of swords? Could they both represent someone with the ability to keep a secret?

I thinking along the lines of the 4 of pentacles representing someone who can CLING TO a secret, not give it up...clinging to their words which they aren't allowing to escape. Does it make sense?

 

[Sophie]

Absolutely it makes sense! 4 of pents clings to anything - security, money, information, relationships, houses, companies, friends - and secrets. Makes sense to me.

Whereas the 4 of Swords could be someone who does not reveal a secret or some information out of discretion - possibly after a dispute, or a stressful time, in order not to fuel more disagreement. Or someone who is known as a "tomb" - that is, who keeps the confidences of someone else. It's an honourable act.

 

[JennyM]

Absolutely it makes sense! 4 of pents clings to anything - security, money, information, relationships, houses, companies, friends - and secrets. Makes sense to me.

Whereas the 4 of Swords could be someone who does not reveal a secret or some information out of discretion - possibly after a dispute, or a stressful time, in order not to fuel more disagreement. Or someone who is known as a "tomb" - that is, who keeps the confidences of someone else. It's an honourable act.

OK...so I wasn't "off". It was the first thing that came to mind.

I know something about someone and if I wanted to..I could make trouble..but I don't...have no desire to do that. When I asked what that person liked about me I got the 4 Pentacles. I immediately thought...oh, he likes the fact that I don't have a big mouth.

 

[manhattan9thgate]

In my world secrecy and discretion = 7 of Swords

 

[JennyM]

In my world secrecy and discretion = 7 of Swords

I got the 7 Swords once as well...regarding the same person...and me keeping my mouth shut.

 

[Grizabella]

Four of swords could mean that old saying "taking a secret to the grave". And definitely four of pentacles could mean keeping a secret.

Interesting that the seven of swords is thought of that way, but after I thought for a minute, I could see how that could be.

 

[manhattan9thgate]

Four of swords could mean that old saying "taking a secret to the grave". And definitely four of pentacles could mean keeping a secret.

Interesting that the seven of swords is thought of that way, but after I thought for a minute, I could see how that could be.

hmmmmm, another facet of the 4 of Swords "taking a secret to the grave"........that's really fascinating.......and my gut says go with it.
that's one for my journal of notes. Thanks!

 

[Thirteen]

Point of the Secrecy?

I agree with all that's been said. Only the emphasis is (or can be) different. For example:

4/Pents = someone who may keep a secret either because they don't want to get involved or involve others ("Not my business!" or "It's none of their business"), or because it's advantageous to them to keep it (like where the treasure is buried). I can very much see this card for those who are so afraid of poverty that they keep several, secret bank accounts. Often, after they die, the bank accounts can't be found. It's not that they took the secret to the grave per se, it's just that they couldn't bare to tell anyone and have their advantage removed. So they died before they were able to pass on the secret.

Fear, worry, self-interest or just avoiding trouble is more likely the motivation for keeping the secret than, say, honor or love or friendship.

4/Swords = There is certainly a "taking the secret to the grave," and in this instance it's more thoughtful. The 4/swords could indicate someone who sees things in broader terms. A person who might say, "The world isn't ready to know this yet." Or, on a personal level, "It would be better if this person didn't know this."

I would also imagine getting this card for a teenager who spends a lot of time in their room writing up things in diaries. Things they don't want their parents to read or see. This is a private phone conversation, a private e-mail, and it's going to get buried in some secret place because it's better that no one else find out about it.

7/Swords = The important thing about this card is that the person is either sneaky--the secret they're keeping give them a hold over a person ("do this for me or I tell!"), or is having to be sneaky against their will. They hate having to keep this secret but honesty would do them no good. Like if you knew your boss' wife was cheating on him, but also knew he'd never believe you and would likely fire you if you said anything.

7/Swords often indicates keeping a secret but not being happy about it. Feeling dishonest or dishonorable about it.

I suppose that 7/Swords combined with 4/Pents, in a worse case senario, might indicate blackmail.

 

[manhattan9thgate]

Point of the secrecy

agree with all your points, very satisfying...........but..... the 7 of Swords doesn't necessarily have to indicate dishonor.

it can also indicate a situation wherein an individual is doing what is necessary, it's a matter of practicality, being sensible and prudent.

let's look at the 4 of Pentacles as a "foundation" card, the foundation of ones wealth and security, digging in and protecting your "roots" so to speak.

If there's either a threatening situation or a set of circumstances developing in which gain or something positive is taking place, the 7 of Swords can indicate activity to guard against harm or setting things in place to take adavtantage of an opportunity. it is a card of activity that is a result of foresight as well as a card of passive activity, discretion, no need to boast and advertise and possibly lose or diminsh the advatange.
The 7 of Swords is a card of the tactician.

 

[Thirteen]

Theft prevention or Thief?

it can also indicate a situation wherein an individual is doing what is necessary, it's a matter of practicality, being sensible and prudent....

If there's either a threatening situation or a set of circumstances developing in which gain or something positive is taking place, the 7 of Swords can indicate activity to guard against harm or setting things in place to take adavtantage of an opportunity. it is a card of activity that is a result of foresight as well as a card of passive activity, discretion, no need to boast and advertise and possibly lose or diminsh the advatange.
The 7 of Swords is a card of the tactician.

Okay, Granted! I think, however, that the card can fall in one of two directions given this definition. On the one hand, there is the "necessary" side. This is where the tactician needs to do this to succeed, but they might wish they could be open and honest about it instead. This is the "protecting yourself from theft" side. We all wish we didn't have to put locks on our doors and motion sensors on the windows. But if we don't, we're going to get robbed. So we outwit the thief. We use such tactics.

On the other side, the "thief side." This is the person who likes being sneaky. As in all those "Mission Impossible" type movies, he has no qualms about being sneaky. This may not be a matter of practicality or necessity for him, so much as a way of taking advantage of "suckers," of sneaking around the traps and getting the prize.

My point is, whenever we look at the 7/swords we need to decide if the card is talking about theft prevention or thief. The former indicates morality and ethics, a person who WILL be discreet, lay low, etc. because it's necessary...but not because they enjoy it or want to do it. This is not to say that they might not be very good at it. They may be a brilliant tactician and it's war time and their stragedies are winning the war. But they're using that talent because the situation requires it, not because they enjoy war.

The thief is a tactician who is unethical and immoral. He's the war profiteer and he does like it because it give him an advantage. He cares not at all who wins or loses or how many die. He sees the situation and uses his discretion, etc. to gain an advantage for himself alone.

Does that sound right to you?