Validity of Book of Thoth

[The Celtic Seeker]

I'm very new to Tarot, but I'm learning and I've been reading around the subject. Having learned of the references to Kabbalah and to Egyptian mysticism in the tarot I was going to seek a course in Egyptian mysticism, as a starting point to further understand the background.
However, I have just read 'A wicked pack of cards' by Decker, Depaulis and Dummett. I'm sure this book is well known in the Tarot forums. The authors make clear that from their researches, there is no evidence of a link between the Tarot and Egyptian mysticism, the whole thing being an invention of mystic / occult french scholars in the 16th - 19th centuries, the tarot having been first used in fifteenth century Italy as a game.

I am now confused - where does this leave Crowley and the Book of Thoth for example?

Celtic Seeker

 

[AJ]

Welcome to AT!

I've never used the Thoth deck, but many decks introduce many things on top of the basic tarot. In fact some of them add so much the tarot seems to be lost.

Study all those things that interest you, we can never run out of things to learn. But don't worry about it if you don't ... the tarot is there...a never ending source of info-junkying and education.

 

[Abrac]

I think the main thing to keep in mind is that tarot didn't originate in Egypt as occultist believed for a long time. The only connection with Egypt I can see is via Hermeticism (Egyptian mysticism), though it's not clear to me if it was there from the beginning which seems to be the point they were making in A Wicked Pack of Cards. I don't think there's a smoking gun that points directly to Hermeticism, but Hermetic elements can be found in some of the oldest decks if you want to find them.

To my mind, Crowley's philosophy and tarot deck are Hermetic in nature, though strictly speaking it's not Hermetic either but Thelemic, which would make the whole Hermeticism or not Hermeticism debate fairly meaningless where Crowley's concerned.

 

[Strange2]

Crowley's "Book of Thoth" explores Tarot from a wide variety of mystical and esoteric influences, and is by no means limited to Egyptian mystical themes. It is (in my opinion) a very valid and important examination of Tarot, and well worth reading and re-reading at various points in your studies.

Enjoy your tarot studies and researches!

 

[Aeon418]

I am now confused - where does this leave Crowley and the Book of Thoth for example?

Lets take a look at what the Book of Thoth actually says on this issue. Page 3.

THE ORIGIN OF THE TAROT

The origin of this pack of cards is very obscure. Some authorities seek to put it back as far as the ancient Egyptian Mysteries; others try to bring it forward as late as the fifteenth or even the sixteenth century. But the Tarot certainly existed, in what may be called the classical form, as early as the fourteenth century; for packs of that date are extant, and the form has not varied in any notable respect since that time. In the Middle Ages, these cards were much used for fortune telling, especially by gypsies, so that it was customary to speak of the "Tarot of the Bohemians", or "Egyptians". When it was found that the gypsies, despite the etymology, were of Asiatic origin, some people tried to find its source in Indian art and literature. There is here no need to enter into any discussion of these disputed points.

Right at the outset Crowley admits that the origins of Tarot are obscure. There are different theories but there is no need to go any further down this road. Why? The very next section tells us.

Unimportant to the present purpose are tradition and authority. Einstein's Theory of Relativity does not rest on the fact that, when his theory was put to the test, it was confirmed. The only theory of ultimate interest about the Tarot is that it is an admirable symbolic picture of the Universe, based on the data of the Holy Qabalah.

There you have it. The only theory that matters to the present purpose is the Qabalistic one. Of course you could argue, as some do, that there is no inherent link between the Tarot and Qabalah. But we're not relying on tradition and authority here. Crowley is merely presenting a theory, take it or leave it. The question of supposed Egyptian origins, even though it's printed on the cover, doesn't even enter into it.

 

[Teheuti]

This question is dealt with in some depth in this article, regarding the whole Egyptian tradition and Tarot:
http://marygreer.wordpress.com/events/egypt-tarot-and-mystery-school-initiations/

 

[Zephyros]

I've wondered why he named his book after the Egyptian Book of Wisdom, but then I got it; because it was what it was, as Aeon quoted, an admirable picture of the universe. I thought the name was a kind of metaphor. In addition, although he used Egyptian mysticism, I got the impression that he kind of jumbled it up to suit himself and Thelema, using the names as symbols in order to facilitate understanding. It's not a missionary book expounding the virtues of Ancient Egyptian religion.

By the way, the actual Egyptian story of the Book of Thoth is really good, and really exciting, I remember reading it as a child in Roger Lancelyn Green's book, Tales of Ancient Egypt.

 

[The Celtic Seeker]

This question is dealt with in some depth in this article, regarding the whole Egyptian tradition and Tarot:
http://marygreer.wordpress.com/events/egypt-tarot-and-mystery-school-initiations/

That's an interesting link. So, what's being said is that the contemporary tarot deck, with it's referencing to tree of life, numerology, astrology and mythology is a powerful truth, irrespective of the validity or truth of it's claimed roots.
I'm not a Christian, but the similarity is clear, for Christianity is claimed to be a powerful truth based on a man who may not have existed as there is no evidence that he did exist.

I read that Crowley had a personal revelation or. Mystical experience whilst in Egypt and it occurred to me that this might have formed the basis of his work on the Tarot.

Thanks for responding to my thread.

The Celtic seeker

 

[Fianic]

That's an interesting link. So, what's being said is that the contemporary tarot deck, with it's referencing to tree of life, numerology, astrology and mythology is a powerful truth, irrespective of the validity or truth of it's claimed roots.
I'm not a Christian, but the similarity is clear, for Christianity is claimed to be a powerful truth based on a man who may not have existed as there is no evidence that he did exist.

I read that Crowley had a personal revelation or. Mystical experience whilst in Egypt and it occurred to me that this might have formed the basis of his work on the Tarot.

Thanks for responding to my thread.

The Celtic seeker

His revelation gave birth to Thelema, which is his new "religion" for the modern world. One can argue that the whole point of the Thoth deck was to spread Thelema as widely as possible.

 

[wulzcat]

I'm maybe going off on a tangent but apart from the literal links to Egypt (hermeticism, Crowley's visit to Egypt), it occurs to me that the Egyptian system of hieroglyphic symbols was deeply *un*literal, it was a very laterally shifting set of signifiers and that this might be another way to think of the cards as an 'egyptian' system...

Just my thought.